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> That being said, blockchain technology is not Bitcoin. Blockchain technology will likely be revolutionary, while Bitcoin is essentially worthless. People kee

> That being said, blockchain technology is not Bitcoin. Blockchain technology will likely be revolutionary, while Bitcoin is essentially worthless. People keep saying this but what exactly is the value proposition of blockchain again?

matte_black 9y ago
A perfect blockchain would be like having a massive, decentralized, global database from which anyone could read and write to and the information would always be guaranteed to be true. Imagine any app being able to use such a database anytime, anywhere. It would be a perfect single source of truth, that could never be destroyed or hacked.
- _nalply 9y ago
  The information is not guaranteed to be true, it is guaranteed not to have been adultered after the write. The blockchain by itself can't verify the information it gets. After all no blockchain robot looks at your ID card.
  - matte_black 9y ago
    Hmm, that’s true I guess. I’m not sure how you would verify truth, but at least knowing it hasn’t been altered is halfway toward solving the problem.
    - _nalply 9y ago
      You could try to design the system that it is in the best self-interest of parties creating records to be truthful. An example is Bitcoin. It is in your best interest not to spend too much. Spend exactly the amount required, not more, and you are done.
lubujackson 9y ago
Triple-entry accounting, basically. There was an article on here a few months ago that went into depth on the issue. Double-entry accounting made it much harder to cook the books (a record of where money is coming from and a record of where it is going). Blockchains store every transaction within the coin itself and are validated by the entire network as valid transactions. People promote Bitcoin as anonymous, but it's actually the opposite - every transaction is traceable and open source, even if the accounts are not tied to a person directly. There are uses for this but I think the unintended consequences remain to be seen. I think of how people were able to be identified by that Netflix ratings datadump a few years ago, so imagine how easy it would be if Bitcoin became a common currency? I am not positive this is possible (I think it is?) but imagine I buy an apple from Whole Foods and pay with Bitcoin. Now I know what account they use and I can go back through the blockchain to see every other transaction they've ever made: bam, now I know all financial data about Whole Foods over Bitcoin including which accounts pay them the most and the datestamps of those transactions.
- JauntyHatAngle 9y ago
  Just a quick point here, but >Blockchains store every transaction within the coin itself and are validated by the entire network as valid transactions. Is true for bitcoin, but is not necessarily true for all blockchains. Bitcoin != blockchain, even though Bitcoin is the original blockchain.
- flowctrl 9y ago
  > but imagine I buy an apple from Whole Foods and pay with Bitcoin. Now I know what account they use An application like this would use a new address for every transaction, and never use it again. There are desktop software wallets that do this, in the interests of privacy.
- cypherpunks01 9y ago
  Is this the article you're referring to? https://hackernoon.com/why-everyone-missed-the-most-important-invention-in-the-last-500-years-c90b0151c169 https://hackernoon.com/why-everyone-missed-the-most-importan...
jancsika 9y ago
It's a global store of data that synchronizes using a global random number generator. Compare this: "Let's all meet on avenue A at noon to protest the panopticon." to this: "If some function applied to block 1234 reduces to zero, let's meet at avenue A at noon, or else let's meet at avenue B at noon." By using a blockchain you just increased the number of barricades that must be constructed from 1 to 2.
- programmarchy 9y ago
  But nobody has an incentive to mine the chain unless there is a reward. Hence, the value proposition of Bitcoin. The genius of the design lies in the incentive structure, not just the blockchain.
tlrobinson 9y ago
Andreas Antonopoulous has a great talk on this: https://youtu.be/SMEOKDVXlUo https://youtu.be/SMEOKDVXlUo Spoiler: nothing, “blockchain” is one piece of what makes Bitcoin interesting.
quickthrower2 9y ago
When I think of Etherium - it is about transparency. For Etherium contracts to be useful they need to interface with the outside word. That means you need to trust someone to insert that data (e.g. a stock price) into the contract, and they might cheat and put bad data in. However, if they do it is publicly visible and they are shamed and not trusted. If they do stay honest, everything else about the contract will execute as expected and they can be no shenanigans (modulo bugs in the contract). This isn't perfect but it is arguably better than company takes your money, hopefully they give you back what they owe.

matte_black 9y ago

A perfect blockchain would be like having a massive, decentralized, global database from which anyone could read and write to and the information would always be guaranteed to be true. Imagine any app being able to use such a database anytime, anywhere. It would be a perfect single source of truth, that could never be destroyed or hacked.

_nalply 9y ago
The information is not guaranteed to be true, it is guaranteed not to have been adultered after the write. The blockchain by itself can't verify the information it gets. After all no blockchain robot looks at your ID card.
- matte_black 9y ago
  Hmm, that’s true I guess. I’m not sure how you would verify truth, but at least knowing it hasn’t been altered is halfway toward solving the problem.
  - _nalply 9y ago
    You could try to design the system that it is in the best self-interest of parties creating records to be truthful. An example is Bitcoin. It is in your best interest not to spend too much. Spend exactly the amount required, not more, and you are done.

lubujackson 9y ago

Triple-entry accounting, basically. There was an article on here a few months ago that went into depth on the issue. Double-entry accounting made it much harder to cook the books (a record of where money is coming from and a record of where it is going). Blockchains store every transaction within the coin itself and are validated by the entire network as valid transactions. People promote Bitcoin as anonymous, but it's actually the opposite - every transaction is traceable and open source, even if the accounts are not tied to a person directly. There are uses for this but I think the unintended consequences remain to be seen. I think of how people were able to be identified by that Netflix ratings datadump a few years ago, so imagine how easy it would be if Bitcoin became a common currency? I am not positive this is possible (I think it is?) but imagine I buy an apple from Whole Foods and pay with Bitcoin. Now I know what account they use and I can go back through the blockchain to see every other transaction they've ever made: bam, now I know all financial data about Whole Foods over Bitcoin including which accounts pay them the most and the datestamps of those transactions.

JauntyHatAngle 9y ago
Just a quick point here, but >Blockchains store every transaction within the coin itself and are validated by the entire network as valid transactions. Is true for bitcoin, but is not necessarily true for all blockchains. Bitcoin != blockchain, even though Bitcoin is the original blockchain.
flowctrl 9y ago
> but imagine I buy an apple from Whole Foods and pay with Bitcoin. Now I know what account they use An application like this would use a new address for every transaction, and never use it again. There are desktop software wallets that do this, in the interests of privacy.
cypherpunks01 9y ago
Is this the article you're referring to? https://hackernoon.com/why-everyone-missed-the-most-important-invention-in-the-last-500-years-c90b0151c169 https://hackernoon.com/why-everyone-missed-the-most-importan...

jancsika 9y ago

It's a global store of data that synchronizes using a global random number generator. Compare this: "Let's all meet on avenue A at noon to protest the panopticon." to this: "If some function applied to block 1234 reduces to zero, let's meet at avenue A at noon, or else let's meet at avenue B at noon." By using a blockchain you just increased the number of barricades that must be constructed from 1 to 2.

programmarchy 9y ago
But nobody has an incentive to mine the chain unless there is a reward. Hence, the value proposition of Bitcoin. The genius of the design lies in the incentive structure, not just the blockchain.

tlrobinson 9y ago

Andreas Antonopoulous has a great talk on this: https://youtu.be/SMEOKDVXlUo https://youtu.be/SMEOKDVXlUo Spoiler: nothing, “blockchain” is one piece of what makes Bitcoin interesting.

quickthrower2 9y ago

When I think of Etherium - it is about transparency. For Etherium contracts to be useful they need to interface with the outside word. That means you need to trust someone to insert that data (e.g. a stock price) into the contract, and they might cheat and put bad data in. However, if they do it is publicly visible and they are shamed and not trusted. If they do stay honest, everything else about the contract will execute as expected and they can be no shenanigans (modulo bugs in the contract). This isn't perfect but it is arguably better than company takes your money, hopefully they give you back what they owe.