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So I know this won't be popular, but I've got to say it. I'm baffled at these text editor debates. It's almost like developers think that code-input is a sign

by Ramone 16y ago

So I know this won't be popular, but I've got to say it. I'm baffled at these text editor debates. It's almost like developers think that code-input is a significant part of their job. It's not. It's just some accidental complexity that goes with the territory. Speeding up your text-wrangling ability won't do anything to help you be a better/faster developer. I use vim all the time (as well as a bunch of others) and yes of course it was an unnecessary pain-in-the-ass to learn. It's all mindless rote learning that doesn't prove anyone's smarter than anyone else either. My theory is that people won't admit this because they're already invested and on the other side of the steep learning curve. The bottom line is that there's no editor that will make you a better programmer. If you're worried about quick input, you're probably banging out boilerplate and not working at the right level of abstraction.

Lewisham 16y ago
Oh, I absolutely agree it's accidental complexity and won't make you a better developer, but we can always optimize, no? Is there a really good reason to choose Python over Ruby? Usually not, but some people do take a lot of time thinking about such things :) I personally find the ecosystem of software development interesting, I enjoy debates about minuscule language features or text editors or design patterns. I am not really sure why; maybe I think it exposes the variety of the discipline, and I think it might make you a more well-rounded programmer if you take in that wider view. It's hard to put my finger on and verbalize.
tel 16y ago
Totally disagree. The kind of shoe you wear is conceptually orthogonal to your job of walking from one place to another. Practically, however, your choice will drastically impact your comfort, walking range, and possibly even overall health. So pick an editor (or set of editors) that fits, is comfortable, and lets you walk, run, jog, and sprint.
- Ramone 16y ago
  I actually agree with everything you've said there. I just don't think the top editors are different enough in feature-set to make it matter much. Your choice of text editor is just a micro-optimization. As much as I'd like, there isn't one that will turn me into the code-whisperer.
  - sophacles 16y ago
    Sure it wont make you a code whisperer, but once you find an editor that works with your way of thought, you find some crazy cool stuff does happen. For me, it has become as if my editor is directly connected to my brain. If i want to go to a function definition, it just happens. If I want to search, i find myself a the target without every thinking "now i need to do a search". When refactoring I can move chunks of code around, and refit everything to the new pattern without any thought of the text level changes. This is brought by knowing a good tool well combined with knowing the code base and language well. However, without the tool I couldn't be nearly as effective.
  - chc 16y ago
    I think you've created a straw man by this point. Nobody's saying a text editor will turn you into a Nietzschean Übermensch. However, even if it isn't that radical, good tools that make the incidental details go smoothly can still make a big difference.
telemachos 16y ago
When I was in graduate school, I took up pool. I played every day for five years, at least one hour a day and often as many as three or four. In my second year, friends gave me a pool cue. Most pool halls provide cues, of course, and most of those cues are fine. (Other than truly warped ones which are rare and easy to spot, it's mostly a matter of finding one in a size and weight that suits you.) The nicer cue didn't make me a better player in any direct sense. However, it was (and is) a joy to handle. It has obvious craftsmanship: the weight and balance is just so; it swings easily in my hands. I look forward to using it, and I care for it very well. So, indirectly, it probably contributed to the improvement of my game. tl;dr A well-made tool can bring its own reward. Tools you want to work with and care for encourage good habits and practice. These things are not nothing. Programming is not merely a mental activity of juggling abstractions.
compay 16y ago
Everybody uses editors differently, and perhaps for your approach and workflow it doesn't make a significant difference. In my experience using vim has made my work day more enjoyable than other editors did, and while I don't think it directly impacts my code, I sometimes think that the increased happiness probably does have a positive impact on the quality of my work. And even if it doesn't, the increased happiness is a virtue unto itself. The point is, find the tools that make you happy and use them. They don't have to be the same ones other people are using.

by Ramone 16y ago

Lewisham 16y ago

Oh, I absolutely agree it's accidental complexity and won't make you a better developer, but we can always optimize, no? Is there a really good reason to choose Python over Ruby? Usually not, but some people do take a lot of time thinking about such things :) I personally find the ecosystem of software development interesting, I enjoy debates about minuscule language features or text editors or design patterns. I am not really sure why; maybe I think it exposes the variety of the discipline, and I think it might make you a more well-rounded programmer if you take in that wider view. It's hard to put my finger on and verbalize.

tel 16y ago

Totally disagree. The kind of shoe you wear is conceptually orthogonal to your job of walking from one place to another. Practically, however, your choice will drastically impact your comfort, walking range, and possibly even overall health. So pick an editor (or set of editors) that fits, is comfortable, and lets you walk, run, jog, and sprint.

Ramone 16y ago
I actually agree with everything you've said there. I just don't think the top editors are different enough in feature-set to make it matter much. Your choice of text editor is just a micro-optimization. As much as I'd like, there isn't one that will turn me into the code-whisperer.
- sophacles 16y ago
  Sure it wont make you a code whisperer, but once you find an editor that works with your way of thought, you find some crazy cool stuff does happen. For me, it has become as if my editor is directly connected to my brain. If i want to go to a function definition, it just happens. If I want to search, i find myself a the target without every thinking "now i need to do a search". When refactoring I can move chunks of code around, and refit everything to the new pattern without any thought of the text level changes. This is brought by knowing a good tool well combined with knowing the code base and language well. However, without the tool I couldn't be nearly as effective.
- chc 16y ago
  I think you've created a straw man by this point. Nobody's saying a text editor will turn you into a Nietzschean Übermensch. However, even if it isn't that radical, good tools that make the incidental details go smoothly can still make a big difference.

telemachos 16y ago

When I was in graduate school, I took up pool. I played every day for five years, at least one hour a day and often as many as three or four. In my second year, friends gave me a pool cue. Most pool halls provide cues, of course, and most of those cues are fine. (Other than truly warped ones which are rare and easy to spot, it's mostly a matter of finding one in a size and weight that suits you.) The nicer cue didn't make me a better player in any direct sense. However, it was (and is) a joy to handle. It has obvious craftsmanship: the weight and balance is just so; it swings easily in my hands. I look forward to using it, and I care for it very well. So, indirectly, it probably contributed to the improvement of my game. tl;dr A well-made tool can bring its own reward. Tools you want to work with and care for encourage good habits and practice. These things are not nothing. Programming is not merely a mental activity of juggling abstractions.

compay 16y ago

Everybody uses editors differently, and perhaps for your approach and workflow it doesn't make a significant difference. In my experience using vim has made my work day more enjoyable than other editors did, and while I don't think it directly impacts my code, I sometimes think that the increased happiness probably does have a positive impact on the quality of my work. And even if it doesn't, the increased happiness is a virtue unto itself. The point is, find the tools that make you happy and use them. They don't have to be the same ones other people are using.