6 ms·
I find it interesting that the most notable names from P0 team aren't native US citizens. Even with dual citizenship they won't get clearance easily to work fo
by postit 9y ago
I find it interesting that the most notable names from P0 team aren't native US citizens.
Even with dual citizenship they won't get clearance easily to work for NSA.
- lisper 9y agoHow on earth can you tell if someone is a native citizen from their name? And what difference does it make if they're native or naturalized? One of the bedrock principles of American democracy is (or at least is supposed to be) that a citizen is a citizen. There's a reason that the phrase "second-class citizen" is supposed to have universally pejorative connotations.
- komali2 9y agoHe's not wrong about it being more difficult for people with dual citizenship to get security clearance, though. At least in that sense you can be a "second class citizen."
- walshemj 9y agoMight be hard for 1st gen citizens when I started work late 10's in the UK all 4 grandparents had to be Uk Nationals.
- lisper 9y agoI'm a naturalized U.S. citizen with a dual citizenship, and I had no trouble (well, no more than the usual trouble) getting a security clearance. But what does any of this have to do with anything anyway? The linked-to page doesn't mention the NSA, P0 team, or security clearances.
- nl 9y agobedrock principles of American democracy Clearances aren't democratic (nor should they be). No idea how they can tell citizen status from the name, though. I thought the US was made up of people form all over earth with all kinds of backgrounds so one couldn't tell from their name.
- summer_steven 9y ago>How on earth can you tell if someone is a native citizen from their name? Why are you playing dumb? He's clearly talking about someone with clearly foreign name, not someone from Canada. I'm sick of people acting willfully ignorant in their arguments
- Someone 9y agoClearly foreign, like Bezos, Obama, or Wozniak?
- summer_steven 9y agoAnd those are exceptions to the norm. Look at the census of the 100 most common American names, they're either traditional American names or Spanish names from those who immigrated here over the last 50 years. https://www.thoughtco.com/most-common-us-surnames-1422656 https://www.thoughtco.com/most-common-us-surnames-1422656
- phaemon 9y agoThose top 100 names total 50 million people, out of a total US population of 250 million (at time of 1990 census). That means that 80% of the US population has a surname other than those on that list. Assuming that 80% of the US poplulation are "foreign" because they aren't in the top 100 most common surnames, seems rather foolish.
- DRW_ 9y agoA lot of those look like traditional British names (also foreign).
- orionblastar 9y agoWe need immigration to have foreigners come here, make stsrtups, grow our economy, and create jobs. The student visa should lead to a green card. Since it does not immigrants go back to their home nation and do startups there. Not to be political, but Trump does not get that yet.
- postit 9y agoFirst:, I used notable names instead of notable persons. If that caused a confusion or misunderstanding to the point you believe I was segregating or second classing anyone, pardon me. Second: My intent was to reply to Kiddico's message which says "I find it interesting how many of those are attributed to project zero members" That's the relation of p0 with my reply Third: Ben Hawkes(NZ), Tavis Ormandy(UK), Ian Beer(UK) and Matt Tate(UK) are often credited as notable members of the project zero team.
- komali2 9y agoHuh. What kind of computers are they using over at the NSA, anyway? What about their laptops?
- asveikau 9y agoJust want to repeat what lisper said, and even more emphatically as this is personal to me, you cannot tell a native US citizen from their name. I myself have an 11 character surname from the Baltic States. I was born in Washington DC. What exactly is a native born American name to you? English origin? German? I honestly think you should be ashamed of what you wrote. It's deeply offensive to those of us with roots in other places.
- cortesoft 9y agoI have no idea if this is the case, but it could also be possible that the person you are replying to actually knows of the people listed. He might not be basing his observation on the names themselves.
- asveikau 9y agoI have encountered too many similar comments to believe that is the case.
- summer_steven 9y ago> I myself have an 11 character surname from the Baltic States. What exactly is a Baltic surname to you? Russian origin? German? I honestly think you should be ashamed of what you wrote. It's deeply offensive to those of us with roots in other places.
- asveikau 9y agoIt's neither Russian nor German. Baltic is a linguistic category on its own. Specifically Lithuanian in my case. Latvian is related. There were also Baltic language speakers in Prussia before it became majority German speaking. "Surname from the Baltic States" implies linguistic precision and specificity that "surname from the United States" does not convey and is in no means equivalent to. There is some vagueness in what I said but I left it there intentionally, people don't get crazy specific about personal details here usually. I was meaning to say I have a "foreign" surname.
- dragonwriter 9y ago> I find it interesting that the most notable names from P0 team aren't native US citizens. How do you know? > Even with dual citizenship they won't get clearance easily to work for NSA. Not being a native citizen doesn't mean you are a dual citizen; those are orthogonal concepts. Dual citizenship are frequently native-born (having citizenship-by-birth in more than one country is a common route to dual citizenship) and naturalized citizens often do not retain foreign citizenship (they formally must renounce it, but some countries don't automatically—or ever—give effect to such renunciation.)