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Here's a recent transaction with a $2 fee: https://blockchain.info/tx/704b0c6c19c8cfe1d16093552d5196a8f8fcdfa707a8284da8ce5c34c9b65914 https://blockchain.info/

by dmm 9y ago

Here's a recent transaction with a $2 fee: https://blockchain.info/tx/704b0c6c19c8cfe1d16093552d5196a8f8fcdfa707a8284da8ce5c34c9b65914 https://blockchain.info/tx/704b0c6c19c8cfe1d16093552d5196a8f... For that $2 a transaction is forever recorded on thousands of nodes in a worldwide consensus network, secured by a huge number of miners. Blockchains are not going to scale to visa level numbers of transactions without huge blocks and de facto centralization. The reasonable alternative is a second transaction layer, the lightning network.

gerry_shaw 9y ago
So a 20% transaction fee on a $10 transaction? Who pays that fee?
- wereHamster 9y ago
  The person who creates the transaction (ie. the buyer or customer).
koolba 9y ago
> For that $2 a transaction is forever recorded on thousands of nodes in a worldwide consensus network, secured by a huge number of miners. Blockchains are not going to scale to visa level numbers of transactions without huge blocks and de facto centralization. Bingo. Short of it is that consumers don't care. They just want to be able to buy something and have the transaction complete immediately. Whether it's a central payment network, a distributed consensus of 1000s of nodes, or a single "ring" from an in person cash register it's all the same.
eterm 9y ago
Or a second transaction layer, like a bank or VISA? At which point, why not use those same layers over USD instead of over bitcoin?
- babuskov 9y ago
  Because moving USD across borders usually includes declaring the source and type of income and taxing it. Bitcoin looks like a big tax-evasion scheme at this moment because 1) laws aren't clearly defined and 2) governments are unable to track what is going on unless BTC is converted to/from fiat.
- AgentME 9y ago
  >Or a second transaction layer, like a bank or VISA? * They don't transact bitcoin. * They don't transact your (non)bitcoin in a decentralized way. They alone run the software and are in control of changes and restrictions, including who you're allowed to send to. * You don't hold the private keys to your (non)bitcoin when it's a bank or VISA or Paypal. They own it for you. They can lock your account and maybe give you the privilege of putting yourself through some asinine process to regain access to it. The lightning network is a "second layer" that still is decentralized and puts users in control of their own funds.
  - eterm 9y ago
    Second layers over bitcoin won't have those properties you've mentioned either.
    - AgentME 9y ago
      Is this word play over "second layer" or something? The Lightning Network is an example of one that's decentralized and keeps users in control of their own funds. All lightning network transactions are settled within normal bitcoin transactions, and any funds locked up within a payment channel can be unlocked by either party without needing cooperation of the other.

by dmm 9y ago

gerry_shaw 9y ago

So a 20% transaction fee on a $10 transaction? Who pays that fee?

wereHamster 9y ago
The person who creates the transaction (ie. the buyer or customer).

koolba 9y ago

> For that $2 a transaction is forever recorded on thousands of nodes in a worldwide consensus network, secured by a huge number of miners. Blockchains are not going to scale to visa level numbers of transactions without huge blocks and de facto centralization. Bingo. Short of it is that consumers don't care. They just want to be able to buy something and have the transaction complete immediately. Whether it's a central payment network, a distributed consensus of 1000s of nodes, or a single "ring" from an in person cash register it's all the same.

eterm 9y ago

Or a second transaction layer, like a bank or VISA? At which point, why not use those same layers over USD instead of over bitcoin?

babuskov 9y ago
Because moving USD across borders usually includes declaring the source and type of income and taxing it. Bitcoin looks like a big tax-evasion scheme at this moment because 1) laws aren't clearly defined and 2) governments are unable to track what is going on unless BTC is converted to/from fiat.
AgentME 9y ago
>Or a second transaction layer, like a bank or VISA? * They don't transact bitcoin. * They don't transact your (non)bitcoin in a decentralized way. They alone run the software and are in control of changes and restrictions, including who you're allowed to send to. * You don't hold the private keys to your (non)bitcoin when it's a bank or VISA or Paypal. They own it for you. They can lock your account and maybe give you the privilege of putting yourself through some asinine process to regain access to it. The lightning network is a "second layer" that still is decentralized and puts users in control of their own funds.
- eterm 9y ago
  Second layers over bitcoin won't have those properties you've mentioned either.
  - AgentME 9y ago
    Is this word play over "second layer" or something? The Lightning Network is an example of one that's decentralized and keeps users in control of their own funds. All lightning network transactions are settled within normal bitcoin transactions, and any funds locked up within a payment channel can be unlocked by either party without needing cooperation of the other.