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I am a mathematics professor (at a non-elite university). If anyone has advice on how I can help our students (at all levels -- undergrad and grad) get jobs in

I am a mathematics professor (at a non-elite university). If anyone has advice on how I can help our students (at all levels -- undergrad and grad) get jobs in any of these industries, I would be grateful to listen!

ianai 9y ago
I’d tell them to begin work in a portfolio of whatever they’re interested in doing. If they want to work in IT then take the time to learn some cloud platform and Linux sys administration. Try to obtain the A+ asap. If they want to be in data analytics then learn python, excel (for the HR departments of the world), and statistics. Then make a code example repo and/or blog with some analytics. Be prepared to start at a very low position and work up as quickly as they want. That would also apply to anyone wanting to get into those fields. I’d argue a solid math background puts them in a strong place to specialize. I’ve also always wondered to what extent math would be useful in law school.
- roel_v 9y ago
  "I’ve also always wondered to what extent math would be useful in law school." I have a software engineering degree (not CS) first, and then put myself through law school part time while working as a programmer, so I have some insight in this. In short, it's completely useless; even programming skills are useless. There are some highly specific (patent) positions where having a technical background combined with law 'pays off'; although if you look at the opportunity cost and the premium you're paid, it's not all that great (and writing patents is incredibly tedious; for litigation, tech skills count for bupkis). Even for thinks where you'd think having a technical background would matter (IP lawyer, computer crime/forensics legal consultant, cybercrime DA), your tech knowledge is useless. The vast majority of the work there is legal, and the little bit of tech needed is easily explained by a consultant with no knowledge of the legal aspects. I know (of) quite a few tech/law combo grads (it's actually not all that uncommon), and very few of them manage to synergistically apply both in a career. Those that do, do so because of a third (communication/self-marketing) skill; more than having any technology background. So, in short: law degree is fun, but don't count on it being anything but a hobby (when combined with tech career). (oh, I also know a mathematician who's now teaching at a law faculty; he does research on computational ethics and philosophy, that sort of thing. Intellectually very interesting, but 0 real world applicability - in other words, bound to academia - for better or for worse).
  - ianai 9y ago
    I wouldn't think a math background would directly apply to law. I'm thinking it might translate to someone who can build a solid argument. I'm aware that logic in the manner familiar to a mathematician would not apply. It's all about rhetoric and knowledge of the law. That's been my take away from conversations with legal professors/students. I appreciated your insight. My thoughts were formed with much less knowledge.
tgb 9y ago
There's a grant from the NIH (assuming you're in the US) called the K25. It's designed to get math/engineering people into health related fields. It's for the postdoc level (it might also be applicable for someone with a BS/BA, not sure). It can pay for 3-5 years of salary for the individual to work with a mentor and to learn the field - no knowledge of the medical-related subject is expected since the applicant is explicitly there to learn the field. As such it's widely applicable to math people who want to do research in medical fields. Caveats: I think you need to be a US citizen or permanent resident and you have to find a mentor willing to take you. This shouldn't be impossible though, since your salary will be paid by the grant so it's not a financial burden and many fields need people on the math/statistics side of things. Look for biostats researchers and contact them even if they're not hiring since again the grant pays the salary they might take someone even if they aren't looking for someone. The application is open three or four times a year, next one in February. I think the October round better matches the typical graduate' time frame, which means students should plan this at least a year before graduating. As someone going through this process right now, thanks for thinking of your students' careers! I wish more math departments encouraged options outside of pure math and finance. There's definite demand but a difficulty finding the appropriate positions for us.
Anonimal 9y ago
In a word: internships. Large corporations and government agencies (at least in the U.S.) do much of their hiring from intern (or co-op) programs. You might want to reach out to your graduates to find out where they work and what they do (alumni offices are pretty good at tracking them down).
brational 9y ago
To start - help to get rid of the sentiment that programming is beneath them. A lot of math undergrads won't take CS classes, won't learn to program, bc they think it is somehow inferior. source: BS/MS in applied math and didnt learn to program until grad school. I know many other math undergrads that had similar views. I now work in c++ all day - writing algorithms for catheter navigation and geometric mapping of the heart (and previously image processing for factory automation, machine learning/data science for predictive maintenance via aircraft sensor data). It's a real problem. You don't even need a full CS minor to be useful in industry. An intro programming class, data structures, 1 or 2 algorithms classes. An OS class if you want to be more thorough. In some students it's an attitude problem, in others it's just unfortunate lack of awareness.
jtmcmc 9y ago
I have a Bs in applied mathematics and I'm a software engineer. I think that mathematicians make incredible software engineers (not me necessarily ) if they do two things, take some basic cs classes, get co-ops/internships programming. I faced a _lot_ of bias when getting into the industry because people didn't want to train me to program or thought I'd be too weak of a software engineer, etc... and I believe having internships/co-ops would have massively helped rectify that and also have given me a network of jobs to work at.
- godelski 9y ago
  I'd actually be interested in your experience. Personally I have a degree in Physics. Only two classes in programming (majorly self taught) and work in simulations. How does the software engineering field see people like me? I've applied to programming jobs in the past and just never knew if I was under qualified, didn't stand out, or just slipped through the cracks in the large amounts of applications places get. And to OP's question, look into simulation. There's a lot I learned on the job, but having basic programming abilities will go a long way. A lot of engineers are weak at programming compared to what I see in CS.
  - AnimalMuppet 9y ago
    I did a double major, math and physics. I was basically self-taught with respect to computers (one CS class on my transcript). I got hired as a programmer by a lady with a Master's in math, who was largely self-taught with respect to computers. That first hire is all it takes - after that, I had experience. I graduated in 1984, though, so this may not be very applicable to the current situation...
    - godelski 9y ago
      Well that sounds reasonable to me. First job was hard to get though. I can completely understand where the OP is coming from.
      - AnimalMuppet 9y ago

ianai 9y ago

I’d tell them to begin work in a portfolio of whatever they’re interested in doing. If they want to work in IT then take the time to learn some cloud platform and Linux sys administration. Try to obtain the A+ asap. If they want to be in data analytics then learn python, excel (for the HR departments of the world), and statistics. Then make a code example repo and/or blog with some analytics. Be prepared to start at a very low position and work up as quickly as they want. That would also apply to anyone wanting to get into those fields. I’d argue a solid math background puts them in a strong place to specialize. I’ve also always wondered to what extent math would be useful in law school.

roel_v 9y ago
"I’ve also always wondered to what extent math would be useful in law school." I have a software engineering degree (not CS) first, and then put myself through law school part time while working as a programmer, so I have some insight in this. In short, it's completely useless; even programming skills are useless. There are some highly specific (patent) positions where having a technical background combined with law 'pays off'; although if you look at the opportunity cost and the premium you're paid, it's not all that great (and writing patents is incredibly tedious; for litigation, tech skills count for bupkis). Even for thinks where you'd think having a technical background would matter (IP lawyer, computer crime/forensics legal consultant, cybercrime DA), your tech knowledge is useless. The vast majority of the work there is legal, and the little bit of tech needed is easily explained by a consultant with no knowledge of the legal aspects. I know (of) quite a few tech/law combo grads (it's actually not all that uncommon), and very few of them manage to synergistically apply both in a career. Those that do, do so because of a third (communication/self-marketing) skill; more than having any technology background. So, in short: law degree is fun, but don't count on it being anything but a hobby (when combined with tech career). (oh, I also know a mathematician who's now teaching at a law faculty; he does research on computational ethics and philosophy, that sort of thing. Intellectually very interesting, but 0 real world applicability - in other words, bound to academia - for better or for worse).
- ianai 9y ago
  I wouldn't think a math background would directly apply to law. I'm thinking it might translate to someone who can build a solid argument. I'm aware that logic in the manner familiar to a mathematician would not apply. It's all about rhetoric and knowledge of the law. That's been my take away from conversations with legal professors/students. I appreciated your insight. My thoughts were formed with much less knowledge.

tgb 9y ago

There's a grant from the NIH (assuming you're in the US) called the K25. It's designed to get math/engineering people into health related fields. It's for the postdoc level (it might also be applicable for someone with a BS/BA, not sure). It can pay for 3-5 years of salary for the individual to work with a mentor and to learn the field - no knowledge of the medical-related subject is expected since the applicant is explicitly there to learn the field. As such it's widely applicable to math people who want to do research in medical fields. Caveats: I think you need to be a US citizen or permanent resident and you have to find a mentor willing to take you. This shouldn't be impossible though, since your salary will be paid by the grant so it's not a financial burden and many fields need people on the math/statistics side of things. Look for biostats researchers and contact them even if they're not hiring since again the grant pays the salary they might take someone even if they aren't looking for someone. The application is open three or four times a year, next one in February. I think the October round better matches the typical graduate' time frame, which means students should plan this at least a year before graduating. As someone going through this process right now, thanks for thinking of your students' careers! I wish more math departments encouraged options outside of pure math and finance. There's definite demand but a difficulty finding the appropriate positions for us.

Anonimal 9y ago

In a word: internships. Large corporations and government agencies (at least in the U.S.) do much of their hiring from intern (or co-op) programs. You might want to reach out to your graduates to find out where they work and what they do (alumni offices are pretty good at tracking them down).

brational 9y ago

To start - help to get rid of the sentiment that programming is beneath them. A lot of math undergrads won't take CS classes, won't learn to program, bc they think it is somehow inferior. source: BS/MS in applied math and didnt learn to program until grad school. I know many other math undergrads that had similar views. I now work in c++ all day - writing algorithms for catheter navigation and geometric mapping of the heart (and previously image processing for factory automation, machine learning/data science for predictive maintenance via aircraft sensor data). It's a real problem. You don't even need a full CS minor to be useful in industry. An intro programming class, data structures, 1 or 2 algorithms classes. An OS class if you want to be more thorough. In some students it's an attitude problem, in others it's just unfortunate lack of awareness.

jtmcmc 9y ago

I have a Bs in applied mathematics and I'm a software engineer. I think that mathematicians make incredible software engineers (not me necessarily ) if they do two things, take some basic cs classes, get co-ops/internships programming. I faced a _lot_ of bias when getting into the industry because people didn't want to train me to program or thought I'd be too weak of a software engineer, etc... and I believe having internships/co-ops would have massively helped rectify that and also have given me a network of jobs to work at.

godelski 9y ago
I'd actually be interested in your experience. Personally I have a degree in Physics. Only two classes in programming (majorly self taught) and work in simulations. How does the software engineering field see people like me? I've applied to programming jobs in the past and just never knew if I was under qualified, didn't stand out, or just slipped through the cracks in the large amounts of applications places get. And to OP's question, look into simulation. There's a lot I learned on the job, but having basic programming abilities will go a long way. A lot of engineers are weak at programming compared to what I see in CS.
- AnimalMuppet 9y ago
  I did a double major, math and physics. I was basically self-taught with respect to computers (one CS class on my transcript). I got hired as a programmer by a lady with a Master's in math, who was largely self-taught with respect to computers. That first hire is all it takes - after that, I had experience. I graduated in 1984, though, so this may not be very applicable to the current situation...
  - godelski 9y ago
    Well that sounds reasonable to me. First job was hard to get though. I can completely understand where the OP is coming from.
    - AnimalMuppet 9y ago