5 ms·

but you could set transaction fee to 20 cents, it would just take much longer to get confirmed?

Klathmon 9y ago
Kind of, if you set it too low it might never get confirmed at all, but for the most part you can set fees pretty damn low if you are willing to wait for confirmation.
- Domenic_S 9y ago
  Possibly much, much longer, but it could be returned in 14 days if it's too low and never makes it out of the mempool. That's where traditional electronic payments have a huge edge -- instant, incredibly cheap guaranteed verification.
  - Klathmon 9y ago
    Well it "can" be returned after 14 days, but a "malicious" node can also just rebroadcast it to prevent that from happening.
  - nicky0 9y ago
    Bitcoin transaction are never "returned" - they are simply either confirmed or not yet confirmed.
    - eterm 9y ago
      Technically they can be 'returned' by using a higher fee to move the coins to a different address making the original transaction un-confirmable.
      - Klathmon 9y ago
        Unless "replace by fee" is opted into, most nodes won't allow a second transaction to replace a previous one. Which means it's a gamble if that will ever work.
        eterm 9y ago
        If the transaction hasn't been committed (etched into the blockchain), then isn't there a financial advantage to accepting the highest fee transaction? The protocol doesn't matter, mempools aren't validated or shared[+], and so the validity of the chain isn't challenged by processing the higher fee. So given that the bitcoin network is designed to be operated by greedy miners, surely one would break with "tradition" and process the second? You might have to dig to find a route to those nodes but it should surely be possible. [+] They're not shared as in shared-state, i.e. sync'ed.
        Klathmon 9y ago
        Yeah, which is why many will "break ranks" and include a higher transaction fee even if there is a previous spend in the mempool. But it's playing with fire to rely on that, because without opt-in RBF it's far from a sure thing.
    - Domenic_S 9y ago
      the mempool ignores transactions older than 2 weeks: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/5f0e27f1a8495d9be43a953bd0371ccbce510105 https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/5f0e27f1a8495d9be4...
always_good 9y ago
No, because your fee is constantly competing to get into the block against future fees as miners sort the mempool by satoshi/byte to fill up the block. Check out the asymptote: https://estimatefee.com/ https://estimatefee.com/
- vasilipupkin 9y ago
  right, so to get confirmed within 10 hours, I can set the fee to $0.19, according to this website.
  - always_good 9y ago
    May be, it's not just a matter of waiting long enough which seemed to be the question.
nicky0 9y ago
Yes

Kind of, if you set it too low it might never get confirmed at all, but for the most part you can set fees pretty damn low if you are willing to wait for confirmation.

Domenic_S 9y ago
Possibly much, much longer, but it could be returned in 14 days if it's too low and never makes it out of the mempool. That's where traditional electronic payments have a huge edge -- instant, incredibly cheap guaranteed verification.
- Klathmon 9y ago
  Well it "can" be returned after 14 days, but a "malicious" node can also just rebroadcast it to prevent that from happening.
- nicky0 9y ago
  Bitcoin transaction are never "returned" - they are simply either confirmed or not yet confirmed.
  - eterm 9y ago
    Technically they can be 'returned' by using a higher fee to move the coins to a different address making the original transaction un-confirmable.
    - Klathmon 9y ago
      Unless "replace by fee" is opted into, most nodes won't allow a second transaction to replace a previous one. Which means it's a gamble if that will ever work.
      - eterm 9y ago
        If the transaction hasn't been committed (etched into the blockchain), then isn't there a financial advantage to accepting the highest fee transaction? The protocol doesn't matter, mempools aren't validated or shared[+], and so the validity of the chain isn't challenged by processing the higher fee. So given that the bitcoin network is designed to be operated by greedy miners, surely one would break with "tradition" and process the second? You might have to dig to find a route to those nodes but it should surely be possible. [+] They're not shared as in shared-state, i.e. sync'ed.
        Klathmon 9y ago
        Yeah, which is why many will "break ranks" and include a higher transaction fee even if there is a previous spend in the mempool. But it's playing with fire to rely on that, because without opt-in RBF it's far from a sure thing.
  - Domenic_S 9y ago
    the mempool ignores transactions older than 2 weeks: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/5f0e27f1a8495d9be43a953bd0371ccbce510105 https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/5f0e27f1a8495d9be4...

always_good 9y ago

No, because your fee is constantly competing to get into the block against future fees as miners sort the mempool by satoshi/byte to fill up the block. Check out the asymptote: https://estimatefee.com/ https://estimatefee.com/

vasilipupkin 9y ago
right, so to get confirmed within 10 hours, I can set the fee to $0.19, according to this website.
- always_good 9y ago
  May be, it's not just a matter of waiting long enough which seemed to be the question.

nicky0 9y ago

Yes