6 ms·

tl;dr - Google bought the .dev gTLD, specified it for internal use, and pushed changes in Chrome to require HTTPS. Is that monopolistic behaviour?

semperdark 9y ago
Not monopolistic, but pretty obnoxious. I don't think that move made them many friends.
jerf 9y ago
"Is that monopolistic behaviour?" No. Acquiring the TLD has nothing to do with any monopoly, so it's just a browser decision made by Chrome, and it isn't locking anybody out of any markets. It's also technically not even a change to the status quo. Beforehand, you weren't supposed to be using .dev like that. As the article says, you should have been using .test or .invalid. After Google's actions, you still shouldn't have been using .dev and should have been using .test or .invalid. You can't hear my tone, but I don't mean that in the imperative or angry; we've pretty much all screwed that up at some point. But a screw-up it was.
- peterwwillis 9y ago
  It's locking literally every individual and business out of a "development" domain, solely for one corporation's for-profit use. Solely to associate Google with development, over any other corporation in the world. This is like Ford registering ".car" gTLD for themselves (although actually worse). > It's also technically not even a change to the status quo. If it wasn't a change to the status quo, they would have just used the exact same test domains you mention. You're saying that what we should not have done, is okay for Google to do.
  - SAI_Peregrinus 9y ago
    > You're saying that what we should not have done, is okay for Google to do. No, what we should not have done is used an unregistered and unreserved TLD for testing/development. What Google has done is registered the .dev TLD, and started to use it for development.
    - peterwwillis 9y ago
      They were already using it for development. Just like everyone else. They "officially" took it away from everyone else, and then forced it to be TLS-only. This is the internet development equivalent of the copyrighting of the song "Happy Birthday to You".
  - mindcrime 9y ago
    It's locking literally every individual and business out of a "development" domain, solely for one corporation's for-profit use. And? What entitles any of us to use that domain? And as far as that goes, you can, as I understand it, still use that tld, since your local DNS resolver or hosts file can always override how hosts are resolved in there. The only real issue is if you hit the specific issue where a change in Chrome behaviour w/r/t this specific TLD, breaks something in your workflow.
    - peterwwillis 9y ago
      > What entitles any of us to use that domain? You're right. I didn't pay for it, so I'm not entitled to get to use it. Just because there is only one internet, and only one top level domain namespace, and just because I don't have $150,000, does not entitle me to get to use some part of the internet in the same way as a single corporation with a lot of money. What entitles anyone to use the internet? I don't pay for the root name servers. I don't pay for peering transit. I don't pay for core routers. I guess your point must be that corporations [and nations] should use their money and influence to acquire large chunks of the internet and screw with it in any way that they possibly can. And we should not care, because we are not entitled to it.
      - mindcrime 9y ago
        You're right. I didn't pay for it, so I'm not entitled to get to use it. Correct. So what was the point of the rest of your nonsensical rambling? Or do you have some other explanation of why you're entitled to you use that specific tld namespace? You can't just use arbitrary domains that you don't own, why should tld's be any different especially given the advent of gtld's which radically expanded the namespace? You're also ignoring that that that you can still use .dev. The case where Google's ownership of it prevents you from using it (for internal use anyway) is a very specific, limited scenario. does not entitle me to get to use some part of the internet in the same way as a single corporation with a lot of money Nothing about this prevents you from using any part of the Internet. At worst it restricts, ever so slightly, the way you can name your resources. But there have always been restrictions on how you can name your resources.
  - jerf 9y ago
    "It's locking literally every individual and business out of a "development" domain, solely for one corporation's for-profit use. Solely to associate Google with development, over any other corporation in the world." You have answered the question "Was this selfish behavior?" or "Was this an asshole move?", with an answer I agree with. But that was not the question. The question was whether this was monopolistic behavior. The answer is no. As far as I know, several other TLDs have been similarly locked down by companies with no claim to monopoly power in any industry, which pretty much proves it's not related to monopoly power.
paulgb 9y ago
Thanks for the tl;dr, but why buy a tld for internal use only? Just so nobody else would? (Maybe it's in TFA; I'll admit I didn't read it)
- vertex-four 9y ago
  To ensure that nobody else does. Google uses .dev pervasively for projects - if someone were to buy .dev and sell domains in it on the global DNS infrastructure, then myfancynewproject.dev would resolve to something entirely different from within Google than from outside it.
  - delroth 9y ago
    > Google uses .dev pervasively for projects Do you have any source for this statement?
    - CydeWeys 9y ago
      There is no source because it's not an accurate statement.
  - YouAreGreat 9y ago
    If that's true, wouldn't the right plan of action be for everybody to continue using dev as if it was a reserved TLD? Just pretend Google paid off ICANN to make it safe.
  - Chaebixi 9y ago
    > To ensure that nobody else does. Google uses .dev pervasively for projects - if someone were to buy .dev and sell domains in it on the global DNS infrastructure, then myfancynewproject.dev would resolve to something entirely different from within Google than from outside it. So basically Google decided to break everyone else, because they were afraid someone would break them. They should be more considerate of other developers who use .dev internally like them.
    - 9y ago

semperdark 9y ago

Not monopolistic, but pretty obnoxious. I don't think that move made them many friends.

jerf 9y ago

"Is that monopolistic behaviour?" No. Acquiring the TLD has nothing to do with any monopoly, so it's just a browser decision made by Chrome, and it isn't locking anybody out of any markets. It's also technically not even a change to the status quo. Beforehand, you weren't supposed to be using .dev like that. As the article says, you should have been using .test or .invalid. After Google's actions, you still shouldn't have been using .dev and should have been using .test or .invalid. You can't hear my tone, but I don't mean that in the imperative or angry; we've pretty much all screwed that up at some point. But a screw-up it was.

peterwwillis 9y ago
It's locking literally every individual and business out of a "development" domain, solely for one corporation's for-profit use. Solely to associate Google with development, over any other corporation in the world. This is like Ford registering ".car" gTLD for themselves (although actually worse). > It's also technically not even a change to the status quo. If it wasn't a change to the status quo, they would have just used the exact same test domains you mention. You're saying that what we should not have done, is okay for Google to do.
- SAI_Peregrinus 9y ago
  > You're saying that what we should not have done, is okay for Google to do. No, what we should not have done is used an unregistered and unreserved TLD for testing/development. What Google has done is registered the .dev TLD, and started to use it for development.
  - peterwwillis 9y ago
    They were already using it for development. Just like everyone else. They "officially" took it away from everyone else, and then forced it to be TLS-only. This is the internet development equivalent of the copyrighting of the song "Happy Birthday to You".
- mindcrime 9y ago
  It's locking literally every individual and business out of a "development" domain, solely for one corporation's for-profit use. And? What entitles any of us to use that domain? And as far as that goes, you can, as I understand it, still use that tld, since your local DNS resolver or hosts file can always override how hosts are resolved in there. The only real issue is if you hit the specific issue where a change in Chrome behaviour w/r/t this specific TLD, breaks something in your workflow.
  - peterwwillis 9y ago
    > What entitles any of us to use that domain? You're right. I didn't pay for it, so I'm not entitled to get to use it. Just because there is only one internet, and only one top level domain namespace, and just because I don't have $150,000, does not entitle me to get to use some part of the internet in the same way as a single corporation with a lot of money. What entitles anyone to use the internet? I don't pay for the root name servers. I don't pay for peering transit. I don't pay for core routers. I guess your point must be that corporations [and nations] should use their money and influence to acquire large chunks of the internet and screw with it in any way that they possibly can. And we should not care, because we are not entitled to it.
    - mindcrime 9y ago
      You're right. I didn't pay for it, so I'm not entitled to get to use it. Correct. So what was the point of the rest of your nonsensical rambling? Or do you have some other explanation of why you're entitled to you use that specific tld namespace? You can't just use arbitrary domains that you don't own, why should tld's be any different especially given the advent of gtld's which radically expanded the namespace? You're also ignoring that that that you can still use .dev. The case where Google's ownership of it prevents you from using it (for internal use anyway) is a very specific, limited scenario. does not entitle me to get to use some part of the internet in the same way as a single corporation with a lot of money Nothing about this prevents you from using any part of the Internet. At worst it restricts, ever so slightly, the way you can name your resources. But there have always been restrictions on how you can name your resources.
- jerf 9y ago
  "It's locking literally every individual and business out of a "development" domain, solely for one corporation's for-profit use. Solely to associate Google with development, over any other corporation in the world." You have answered the question "Was this selfish behavior?" or "Was this an asshole move?", with an answer I agree with. But that was not the question. The question was whether this was monopolistic behavior. The answer is no. As far as I know, several other TLDs have been similarly locked down by companies with no claim to monopoly power in any industry, which pretty much proves it's not related to monopoly power.

paulgb 9y ago

Thanks for the tl;dr, but why buy a tld for internal use only? Just so nobody else would? (Maybe it's in TFA; I'll admit I didn't read it)

vertex-four 9y ago
To ensure that nobody else does. Google uses .dev pervasively for projects - if someone were to buy .dev and sell domains in it on the global DNS infrastructure, then myfancynewproject.dev would resolve to something entirely different from within Google than from outside it.
- delroth 9y ago
  > Google uses .dev pervasively for projects Do you have any source for this statement?
  - CydeWeys 9y ago
    There is no source because it's not an accurate statement.
- YouAreGreat 9y ago
  If that's true, wouldn't the right plan of action be for everybody to continue using dev as if it was a reserved TLD? Just pretend Google paid off ICANN to make it safe.
- Chaebixi 9y ago
  > To ensure that nobody else does. Google uses .dev pervasively for projects - if someone were to buy .dev and sell domains in it on the global DNS infrastructure, then myfancynewproject.dev would resolve to something entirely different from within Google than from outside it. So basically Google decided to break everyone else, because they were afraid someone would break them. They should be more considerate of other developers who use .dev internally like them.
  - 9y ago