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I've had multiple encounters with debt collection agencies that all ended up being for medical bills that were never processed correctly in the first place that
by TallGuyShort 9y ago
I've had multiple encounters with debt collection agencies that all ended up being for medical bills that were never processed correctly in the first place that I had never seen before. In every single case so far it's been a legitimate, state-licensed debt collector, they have not fulfilled the requirements set by law to prove the debt, and the have just used scare tactics and bureaucracy to avoid a fair confrontation. I've filed complaints with the state regulator, at which point token (but inadequate) documentation has been provided and my complaint "resolved".
I have little sympathy for most cases in which people rack up debt and try to escape the consequences, but Good Lord, the other side of that equation is shady as Hell, even when done far more legitimately than this.
- finkin1 9y agoYou should contact a bankruptcy attorney. I used to work for one and he loved cases where debt collectors violate collection laws. Getting a settlement was almost always easy and he split it 50-50 with the client.
- TallGuyShort 9y agoThank you for the suggestion. I just dug up documentation of the most recent case and left a message with a local bankruptcy attorney :)
- TallGuyShort 9y agoAlas - it's been just over a year, and the statute of limitations is up. Next time.
- pc86 9y agoWow, even ambulance chasing personal injury attorneys only take 30-35%.
- jzl 9y agoYep, same here. I got hounded by a collector for a fee that was incorrectly applied to a paid-off medical bill from three years prior. The only way I was able to fend them off was by sending a copy of a statement that I managed to find in the back of a folder buried under hundreds of pages of miscellaneous medical stuff. Moral of the story? Keep all medical paperwork for at least seven years. I've always done this and once in a blue moon it saves a massive amount of headache. You have to assume these days that someone will try to make money off you for not having records.
- throwaway613834 9y agoDebt has a statute of limitations?
- Retric 9y agoIf you have not made a payment in 7 years and they don't sue you then it goes away.
- milesvp 9y agoI think there may be a couple other actions that can reopen the statute of limitations, might be worth double checking. I know for libel, having a public timestamp get updated on a news story can reset the clock for that story.
- icantdrive55 9y agoNever give them a cent on what they claim you owe. Say you give them $10, or say you will pay; the SOL starts over again.
- briffle 9y agoCredit reports do...
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- komali2 9y agoSame situation here, except I mildly suspect the debt may be legitimate, in that the onus is probably on me to fight my insurance company to have covered the money they decided not to, not the hospital. In either case, first the hospital kept sending me bills with an account number that didn't match mine, and when I legitimately tried to pay it, they couldn't find me through account number lookup. This set off my suspicion, so I just kept asking for "proof of debt." Every time they sent it, some detail would be off, and I'd call them and tell them, and about a month later they'd send a new one with some new error. This kept on, until the (fairly new) hospital moved its accounting office or something that caused them to really fuck up their records. I didn't hear from it for about 4 months until I got my first call from a debt collector. They really tried to hammer me on how they could work out a "deal" with me for reduced cost (I'm sure they probably paid 10% or something for my debt), so as usual, I asked for proof of debt. It never came. 3 months later, another call, different agency. Proof of debt, never arrived. 3 months later, another call, ANOTHER DIFFERENT AGENCY. This time I just asked to be "added to their do not call list." They did. Haven't heard from this bullshit in 5 months. I've checked my credit twice since then (once routine, once as a result of the equifax debacle), no sign of the debt. I guess I'm finally free?
- TallGuyShort 9y agoYeah in my cases the debt has actually always been legitimate - but I didn't believe it until I got documentation of what the actual charge was and how it differed from what I had already paid FROM THE ORIGINAL CREDITOR (the healthcare provider) as a result of my own proactive investigation. I have always paid the debt directly to the healthcare provider after they re-process it correctly. But that's precisely my point: even when it's a legitimate debt, the proof exists, and I'm willing to pay once I've seen the proof, the debt collectors are still scum about it. I'm glad I've always had the original creditor reprocess it correctly and bill me for the remainder directly: none of my money has ever actually gone to a shady debt collector.
- tfandango 9y agoInteresting, I noticed a hit on my credit report for a legitimate debt caused by an urgent care who sent the bill to the wrong address and eventually sold the debt to a collector (despite me writing my current info on the signin documentation they gave us!). I have offered to pay-for-delete with them but they have not responded at all. I'm thinking about what to do next.
- klenwell 9y agoThis NY Times article that got a fair bit of attention a couple years ago details just how shady it is: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/08/15/magazine/bad-paper-debt-collector.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/08/15/magazine/bad-... I'd be surprised if this article didn't get discussed here on HN at the time.
- TallGuyShort 9y agoIt's discussed here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8182953 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8182953. I don't believe it was that particular thread, but HN has been the source of some very helpful advice on how to fight this: always using registered mail (costs a bit of money, but helps you keep a paper trail of dates they can't simply deny without more proof), staying calm and collecting as much written evidence as possible, etc.
- tombrossman 9y agoThis is probably what you refer to, right? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7135833 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7135833 (or if not, it's very helpful and worth a read)
- code_duck 9y agoI have a debt from a hospital right now which two separate insurance companies told me they would pay. Last time I talked to the hospital, I told them to please bill the insurance I had supplied them, and not continue sending me letters demanding I pay them $1250 for a procedure that the cash clinic across the street said they would do for 380 (that's including the 'uninsured discount'). The guy on the phone said it was too late because it had been nearly 90 days and 'the computer is sending it to collections in a couple days'. According to him, he couldn't do anything about that.
- TallGuyShort 9y agoWhat I learned from my recent experience is that if you've given them insurance information, and they haven't billed the insurance, it's not your bill yet. They have a year to do so, after which neither you nor the insurance are responsible. Now, I am not a lawyer and there may have been state laws in play that don't apply to you, BUT - that's worth keeping in mind. I ended up having to pay a co-pay after mine was reprocessed. Had I not been so proactive and persistent and a couple more weeks had passed, they would have had to swallow the debt.
- code_duck 9y agoI'm definitely not paying them - the imaginary bill is their problem. I just think it's ridiculous that they are so incompetent.
- conductr 9y agoThis will probably not end well for you if you value your credit score. The bill is your responsibility. I almost guarantee you signed something saying you would be responsible for the full amount. If they haven’t billed your insurance, yes it’s incompetent and frustrating, but the correct way to handle this is to pay it off yourself and then work directly with your insurance company to get reimbursed. Edit: I’m assuming you’re in the US.
- 9y ago
- e40 9y agoSame here. I had months of calls from the agency and I think only because I was extremely forceful that I would never pay them a penny that they finally backed off and told the medical provider to bill the f'ing insurance. This was all complicated by the fact that I didn't see any bill for > 9 months (while they were billing the wrong insurer).
- sillysaurus3 9y agoI have little sympathy for most cases in which people rack up debt and try to escape the consequences You might want to empathize a bit more. Most debt is racked up because those medical bills you mention are legitimate, but can't be covered due to lack of insurance. The other way is to make a purchase and then lose your job, at which point you can no longer sell your purchase and no longer sustain the payments.
- TuringNYC 9y agoAs I learned from my wife's first pregnancy -- you get bills from 12 different parties with vague names like Northern New York State Physicians Group LLC, which in aggregate are way over the co-pay limit. Try calling one, you cant reach them. Most are probably legitimate, but clearly they are incorrect in aggregate. We hired a billing consultant to reconcile all the bills, I imagine most people give up and either pay them all or just let it all go to collection.
- TallGuyShort 9y agoI've made no comment about medical bills or people who legitimately lack the money, who have other legal protection. I'm talking about people who rack up debt and try to escape the consequences just because it is advantageous to themselves to do so. I personally know more of them than I care to. I apologize if the wording implied this was "most cases" of debt in general.
- sillysaurus3 9y agoI wasn't calling you out. It was just a different perspective, mostly for readers' benefit. There are many people who feel that the poor are poor because they are incompetent or malicious, rather than because it's a self-sustaining cycle. It's a good reminder to write less pointedly, though. If you have any tips on writing style or favorite authors, I'd love to hear them.
- TallGuyShort 9y agoYou yourself pointed out a way in which my own post could have been written less pointedly, so I'm probably not the one to be giving tips :)