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> It doesn't actually use WiFi communication Actually it does. It manipulates the WiFi signal. > it cannot work reliably across variable environmental conditi

> It doesn't actually use WiFi communication Actually it does. It manipulates the WiFi signal. > it cannot work reliably across variable environmental conditions Nope nor can my tablet, notebook or streaming stick but 99% of the time. It does work almost all the time though. I really think this is possibly the best scientific measurement tool idea I have seen in a while. Minimal of parts should keep this working for years and no electronics sounds like there will be many different applications.

TeMPOraL 9y ago
>> It doesn't actually use WiFi communication > Actually it does. It manipulates the WiFi signal. Actually, it doesn't. It scatters back some radio frequencies, including 2.4GHz, which happens to be used by Wi-Fi... and Bluetooth, and Zigbee, and other stuff that people might have in their homes. You still need at least a dedicated radio driver, which has absolutely nothing to do with Wi-Fi protocol, to actually read the data those devices send. Your comment is a good example of exactly why the way this article (and the original paper) uses the word "Wi-Fi" and "connection" is a big problem. See also: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15861392 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15861392.
- baldfat 9y ago
  > Your comment is a good example of exactly why the way this article (and the original paper) uses the word "Wi-Fi" and "connection" is a big problem. The main point of the article was : "University of Washington researchers are the first to make this a reality by 3-D printing plastic objects and sensors that can collect useful data and communicate with other WiFi-connected devices entirely on their own." Um I don't understand if you look at the flow chart this paper is narrowly speaking about wifi that it is Wifi TX --> 3D Printed Object --> Wifi RX I am talking about how this is 100% wifi communication and sure the Wifi RX is where the success of this relays. Sure it will work with other protocols but this is about them specifically using it as a way for Wifi RX > > Actually it does. It manipulates the WiFi signal. > Actually, it doesn't. "backscatter" the Wifi signal isn't manipulation? If you follow the "Backscatter" link in the article they actually state the following: "This new “interscatter communication” works by converting Bluetooth signals into Wi-Fi transmissions over the air." http://www.washington.edu/news/2016/08/17/interscatter-communication-enables-first-ever-implanted-devices-smart-contact-lenses-credit-cards-that-talk-wi-fi/ http://www.washington.edu/news/2016/08/17/interscatter-commu... So they can convert signals from bluetooth to Wifi isn't manipulation? Your statement of > It scatters back some radio frequencies, including 2.4GHz, which happens to be used by Wi-Fi... Seems off to their own "backscatter" definition. This is not simple reflections of radio signals these technically are new signals physically manipulated by the non-electronic devices.
  - detaro 9y ago
    While I'd agree that they "manipulate" the Wifi signal, I also have a hard time calling something that doesn't generate Wifi frames or packets "Wi-Fi communication". It merely changes the signal strength of existing packages (or packages specifically generated to fill air-time, which seems like another large downside of this). It does not generate new frames or insert data into them.
    - baldfat 9y ago
      But it is a new signal originating from the 3D object. They even convert Bluetooth to Wifi signals with this technique. Read about comment of mine for source.
      - TeMPOraL 9y ago
        The technique you mention is realized through an FPGA chip. It is not used in the 3D-printed backscatter devices this article is about.
        baldfat 9y ago
        Not this is through the Printed 3D Device From the paper "We 3D print a cup anemometer as shown in Fig. 2 to measure wind speeds. The entire setup is sufficiently light that even wind speeds as low as 2.3 m/s will cause it to spin. The hub of the anemometer is attached to backscatter gear that encodes an alternating sequence of zero one bits. When the hub spins, the backscatter gear pushes against the spring switch. The switch makes contact with the antenna and generates the backscatter signal. Wind speed can be inferred from the rate at which bit transitions occur."
      - detaro 9y ago
        That's a totally different project than the one this submission is about, using totally different technology. The 3d-printing one is modulating things in the range of few Hz, you're not making packets with that.

TeMPOraL 9y ago

>> It doesn't actually use WiFi communication > Actually it does. It manipulates the WiFi signal. Actually, it doesn't. It scatters back some radio frequencies, including 2.4GHz, which happens to be used by Wi-Fi... and Bluetooth, and Zigbee, and other stuff that people might have in their homes. You still need at least a dedicated radio driver, which has absolutely nothing to do with Wi-Fi protocol, to actually read the data those devices send. Your comment is a good example of exactly why the way this article (and the original paper) uses the word "Wi-Fi" and "connection" is a big problem. See also: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15861392 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15861392.

baldfat 9y ago
> Your comment is a good example of exactly why the way this article (and the original paper) uses the word "Wi-Fi" and "connection" is a big problem. The main point of the article was : "University of Washington researchers are the first to make this a reality by 3-D printing plastic objects and sensors that can collect useful data and communicate with other WiFi-connected devices entirely on their own." Um I don't understand if you look at the flow chart this paper is narrowly speaking about wifi that it is Wifi TX --> 3D Printed Object --> Wifi RX I am talking about how this is 100% wifi communication and sure the Wifi RX is where the success of this relays. Sure it will work with other protocols but this is about them specifically using it as a way for Wifi RX > > Actually it does. It manipulates the WiFi signal. > Actually, it doesn't. "backscatter" the Wifi signal isn't manipulation? If you follow the "Backscatter" link in the article they actually state the following: "This new “interscatter communication” works by converting Bluetooth signals into Wi-Fi transmissions over the air." http://www.washington.edu/news/2016/08/17/interscatter-communication-enables-first-ever-implanted-devices-smart-contact-lenses-credit-cards-that-talk-wi-fi/ http://www.washington.edu/news/2016/08/17/interscatter-commu... So they can convert signals from bluetooth to Wifi isn't manipulation? Your statement of > It scatters back some radio frequencies, including 2.4GHz, which happens to be used by Wi-Fi... Seems off to their own "backscatter" definition. This is not simple reflections of radio signals these technically are new signals physically manipulated by the non-electronic devices.
- detaro 9y ago
  While I'd agree that they "manipulate" the Wifi signal, I also have a hard time calling something that doesn't generate Wifi frames or packets "Wi-Fi communication". It merely changes the signal strength of existing packages (or packages specifically generated to fill air-time, which seems like another large downside of this). It does not generate new frames or insert data into them.
  - baldfat 9y ago
    But it is a new signal originating from the 3D object. They even convert Bluetooth to Wifi signals with this technique. Read about comment of mine for source.
    - TeMPOraL 9y ago
      The technique you mention is realized through an FPGA chip. It is not used in the 3D-printed backscatter devices this article is about.
      - baldfat 9y ago
        Not this is through the Printed 3D Device From the paper "We 3D print a cup anemometer as shown in Fig. 2 to measure wind speeds. The entire setup is sufficiently light that even wind speeds as low as 2.3 m/s will cause it to spin. The hub of the anemometer is attached to backscatter gear that encodes an alternating sequence of zero one bits. When the hub spins, the backscatter gear pushes against the spring switch. The switch makes contact with the antenna and generates the backscatter signal. Wind speed can be inferred from the rate at which bit transitions occur."
    - detaro 9y ago
      That's a totally different project than the one this submission is about, using totally different technology. The 3d-printing one is modulating things in the range of few Hz, you're not making packets with that.