4 ms·

As worker in Eastern-Europe, their salaries look totally awesome to me. You'd be surprised for this money how many good people you could find.

ryanwaggoner 9y ago
Let me be clear: from one perspective, I get paid a ridiculous amount of money for what I do. I push buttons and think for a living. I spend a few hours per day doing it, I really enjoy it, and I can do it anywhere in the world from my laptop. It's crazy that someone is willing to pay me $100k / year, and I'm super grateful for that. Really. However, that doesn't mean that $100k / year (or whatever the minimum I'd be excited about) is the market rate. If ten other companies would pay me $300k, then I should go work there, right? There's no speed limit. Just because someone is willing to pay you way more than you ever dreamed doesn't mean you should shun any more than that. Do your best and go to where you're valued the most.
- kowdermeister 9y ago
  I get that, my point is that with their "lower" salary I could get the best of both worlds like staying in my current city (Budapest) and earning as much as a good CEO here. I get offers from companies, but if the job/product is boring, a higher salary does not justify the switch for me. I don't disagree with you, I tend to gravitate towards a high pay :) We will soon have a salary formula refactor too, but I think the raise might be a rounding error compared to remote pays.
hajile 9y ago
There are other considerations. Most countries in Europe have lots of government services that offer non-monetary advantages. You have to buy most of those things in the US. There's no free lunch. Instead of giving the employee the money, much of it is handed directly over to the Government (then a bunch more directly from personal income taxes). If you choose to forgo those things while in the US, there is a monetary advantage. If you choose to buy them yourself, you will probably find your final income level to be very close to the same as in Europe.
- ryanwaggoner 9y ago
  Serious question: I'm curious what you're talking about for high-income professionals? If I'm making six figures as a dev in the US, I probably have fairly generous benefits, including healthcare, vacation, parental leave, retirement plan contributions, disability insurance, etc. And I'm probably paying less in overall taxes than most Europeans (though it really depends). Of course, I don't have the safety net things that lower-income Europeans do, but I almost certainly don't need them. So what would the equivalent person in the EU making half as much be getting from their government that I'm not getting from mine? (Btw, this isn't an argument for the US approach being better overall, but just which system is better for the selfish high-income professional)
  - foota 9y ago
    Vacation in Europe is _much_ nicer than here. I started with my company with 3 weeks, the equivalent role in Europe has something like 5 weeks at start.
    - ryanwaggoner 9y ago
      That’s not really much nicer, is it? That’s 2 weeks, which is an extra cost to the company of 4%. Hardly explains the huge salary discrepancy.
  - Shaanie 9y ago
    I have 6 weeks of vacation a year (2 years out of uni) and 240 days of paid (75% of normal pay) parental leave (480 days in total for both parents). How's your vacation and parental leave in comparison?
    - ryanwaggoner 9y ago
      A lot of white collar professionals get 3-6 weeks of vacation. That parental leave is eye-popping though. I know a bunch of professional women who got 3-6 months, which I think is regarded here as pretty generous. But my larger point stands: the average cost per worker for those benefits is only maybe 10% higher than the cost in the US for our reduced benefits. So why are salaries 50% lower?

ryanwaggoner 9y ago

Let me be clear: from one perspective, I get paid a ridiculous amount of money for what I do. I push buttons and think for a living. I spend a few hours per day doing it, I really enjoy it, and I can do it anywhere in the world from my laptop. It's crazy that someone is willing to pay me $100k / year, and I'm super grateful for that. Really. However, that doesn't mean that $100k / year (or whatever the minimum I'd be excited about) is the market rate. If ten other companies would pay me $300k, then I should go work there, right? There's no speed limit. Just because someone is willing to pay you way more than you ever dreamed doesn't mean you should shun any more than that. Do your best and go to where you're valued the most.

kowdermeister 9y ago
I get that, my point is that with their "lower" salary I could get the best of both worlds like staying in my current city (Budapest) and earning as much as a good CEO here. I get offers from companies, but if the job/product is boring, a higher salary does not justify the switch for me. I don't disagree with you, I tend to gravitate towards a high pay :) We will soon have a salary formula refactor too, but I think the raise might be a rounding error compared to remote pays.

hajile 9y ago

There are other considerations. Most countries in Europe have lots of government services that offer non-monetary advantages. You have to buy most of those things in the US. There's no free lunch. Instead of giving the employee the money, much of it is handed directly over to the Government (then a bunch more directly from personal income taxes). If you choose to forgo those things while in the US, there is a monetary advantage. If you choose to buy them yourself, you will probably find your final income level to be very close to the same as in Europe.

ryanwaggoner 9y ago
Serious question: I'm curious what you're talking about for high-income professionals? If I'm making six figures as a dev in the US, I probably have fairly generous benefits, including healthcare, vacation, parental leave, retirement plan contributions, disability insurance, etc. And I'm probably paying less in overall taxes than most Europeans (though it really depends). Of course, I don't have the safety net things that lower-income Europeans do, but I almost certainly don't need them. So what would the equivalent person in the EU making half as much be getting from their government that I'm not getting from mine? (Btw, this isn't an argument for the US approach being better overall, but just which system is better for the selfish high-income professional)
- foota 9y ago
  Vacation in Europe is _much_ nicer than here. I started with my company with 3 weeks, the equivalent role in Europe has something like 5 weeks at start.
  - ryanwaggoner 9y ago
    That’s not really much nicer, is it? That’s 2 weeks, which is an extra cost to the company of 4%. Hardly explains the huge salary discrepancy.
- Shaanie 9y ago
  I have 6 weeks of vacation a year (2 years out of uni) and 240 days of paid (75% of normal pay) parental leave (480 days in total for both parents). How's your vacation and parental leave in comparison?
  - ryanwaggoner 9y ago
    A lot of white collar professionals get 3-6 weeks of vacation. That parental leave is eye-popping though. I know a bunch of professional women who got 3-6 months, which I think is regarded here as pretty generous. But my larger point stands: the average cost per worker for those benefits is only maybe 10% higher than the cost in the US for our reduced benefits. So why are salaries 50% lower?