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(I'm not going to take a position on loot boxes here because I spent seven years working on games that had them and I don't want to get into that debate right n

(I'm not going to take a position on loot boxes here because I spent seven years working on games that had them and I don't want to get into that debate right now.) And yet, that's the core of the piece, and that core is pretty well articulated and damning. Edit: I just want to add that on a personal level, I avoid any game with these manipulative elements in them. I love the idea of for example, For Honor, but the mechanics are perfectly tuned to abuse the player. Who has time in their life for that nonsense? I'll just play another CDPR game.

swivelmaster 9y ago
And yet the argument is underpinned by financial data and analysis that is wrong. Basically, if you (not YOU you, but rather the impersonal 'you') want to have a discussion about the morals and ethics of loot boxes, fine, but don't try to back it up with false claims. Using numbers in a moral argument fools everybody into thinking that there's more certainty around the situation than there actually is. At best it's misleading and at worst it's malicious and dishonest.
- QAPereo 9y ago
  The argument that the companies are lying about how unfairly they’re being enriched, and claims about the abusive, addictive nature engineered knowingly into loot boxes and similar Skinner Boxes are really quite separate. You’ve only addressed one, and refuse to touch the other more interesting (and titular) part of the piece. I can understand why, given that your livelihood depends on said practices. Edit: Just to add a quote from the article, Note: I’m going by the claims of the video. I still haven’t dug into the EA financials myself.
  - swivelmaster 9y ago
    My livelihood no longer depends on said practice. I have mixed feelings about it, but this is Hacker News so I have some expectation that if we're going to be discussing stuff like this, we're at least going to start with the right facts.
- grossprophet 9y ago
  "Using numbers in a moral argument fools everybody into thinking that there's more certainty around the situation than there actually is. At best it's misleading and at worst it's malicious and dishonest." You owe me a new irony detector. This one just blew.
jasonlotito 9y ago
CDPR mistreats it's employees to such a degree, I can't support a company like that. I cannot comprehend how someone can be okay with abusing employees by not okay with "abusing" a willing customer offering money for something.
- greymeister 9y ago
  I use Amazon services even though I would never want to work there. Companies can be very pro-consumer while having poor practices with their employees.
- watwut 9y ago
  Is it worst there then in other gameDev companis?
  - jasonlotito 9y ago
    Yes.

swivelmaster 9y ago

And yet the argument is underpinned by financial data and analysis that is wrong. Basically, if you (not YOU you, but rather the impersonal 'you') want to have a discussion about the morals and ethics of loot boxes, fine, but don't try to back it up with false claims. Using numbers in a moral argument fools everybody into thinking that there's more certainty around the situation than there actually is. At best it's misleading and at worst it's malicious and dishonest.

QAPereo 9y ago
The argument that the companies are lying about how unfairly they’re being enriched, and claims about the abusive, addictive nature engineered knowingly into loot boxes and similar Skinner Boxes are really quite separate. You’ve only addressed one, and refuse to touch the other more interesting (and titular) part of the piece. I can understand why, given that your livelihood depends on said practices. Edit: Just to add a quote from the article, Note: I’m going by the claims of the video. I still haven’t dug into the EA financials myself.
- swivelmaster 9y ago
  My livelihood no longer depends on said practice. I have mixed feelings about it, but this is Hacker News so I have some expectation that if we're going to be discussing stuff like this, we're at least going to start with the right facts.
grossprophet 9y ago
"Using numbers in a moral argument fools everybody into thinking that there's more certainty around the situation than there actually is. At best it's misleading and at worst it's malicious and dishonest." You owe me a new irony detector. This one just blew.

jasonlotito 9y ago

CDPR mistreats it's employees to such a degree, I can't support a company like that. I cannot comprehend how someone can be okay with abusing employees by not okay with "abusing" a willing customer offering money for something.

greymeister 9y ago
I use Amazon services even though I would never want to work there. Companies can be very pro-consumer while having poor practices with their employees.
watwut 9y ago
Is it worst there then in other gameDev companis?
- jasonlotito 9y ago
  Yes.