3 ms·

> But if they want to say "you must instruct your computer to download and display our ads", that's not valid, IMO. Why not? I can sell you a video stream with

by ythn 9y ago

> But if they want to say "you must instruct your computer to download and display our ads", that's not valid, IMO. Why not? I can sell you a video stream without ads for $1. Or I can let you watch it for free with the implicit agreement that you'll watch ads (which will cover the costs of the bandwidth you are using). You want the best of both worlds - you want to watch it for free and not watch any ads. How is that not stealing my bandwidth? If you are going to block the ads, that's fine, but it's your moral obligation to back out of my site and not to consume my bandwidth.

nathan_long 9y ago
If I mute the TV and go to the bathroom while the commercials play, am I stealing? If I read a magazine and flip past the ads, am I stealing? If I change the channel on the radio on a commercial break, am I stealing? I understand what you're saying about the producer's dependence on ad revenue. But never before has a media existed where someone could force you to consume advertising against your will. If you provide content with ads and people decline to look at your ads, you've got a problem with your business model. And by the way, I don't block ads on, eg, StackOverflow, because the ads are tasteful and useful. But if a site with news articles wants to show me animated, sexually suggestive ads for cheap pharmaceuticals, yes, I'm going to block that. I'm not going to let them steal my bandwidth and my mental calm for that.
- ythn 9y ago
  > If I mute the TV and go to the bathroom while the commercials play, am I stealing? If I read a magazine and flip past the ads, am I stealing? If I change the channel on the radio on a commercial break, am I stealing? I think everyone can agree that adblockers go far beyond these examples you listed. Adblockers are an automated, shareable process. > But never before has a media existed where someone could force you to look at advertising against your will. Last time I checked nothing is stopping you from muting your computer and going to the bathroom during ads. Like I said, you just want your cake and eat it too. If you block ads on my website and I detect it, It's fully within my rights to blacklist you for stealing.
- zaphar 9y ago
  You can mute your computer and go to the bathroom while watching youtube or amazon video. You've lost none of the rights that you had with the tv. It's a terrible analogy that people should stop using in this debate. You can debate about whether it's good business on their part. You can debate about whether they should force drm onto your computer. But you can't reasonably debate that just because it's on the web they shouldn't be allowed enter into a financial exchange with consumers and that they shouldn't be able to refuse to do business with people who do not wish to enter into that exchange with them.
  - userbinator 9y ago
    You can mute your computer and go to the bathroom while watching youtube or amazon video. ...until they find a way to detect whether you actually viewed the ads, or maybe even retained any of the content from them. But you can't reasonably debate that just because it's on the web they shouldn't be allowed enter into a financial exchange with consumers and that they shouldn't be able to refuse to do business with people who do not wish to enter into that exchange with them. You're implying that it's OK for consumers to essentially be force-fed ads, if these companies eventually develop such technology that lets them do so. Do you really want to live in such a society?
    - zaphar 9y ago
      You're implying that it's OK for consumers to essentially be force-fed ads Nowhere did I imply that. I implied that it's ok for consumers to be forced to transact for content in the same way that they are forced to pay for the food at their grocery store. And yes I am fine living is such a society. I can always choose not to enter into the transaction. No one is forcing me to watch Youtube, Or read a blog, Or listen to a podcast.
- nathan_long 9y ago
  Can't reply below, but: > If you block ads on my website and I detect it, It's fully within my rights to blacklist you for stealing. Other than the word "stealing", I agree. It's fully within your rights to block or allow access however you want. And it's fully within my rights to decide whether to look at your ads. You control your server. I control my browser. This is good.
jhasse 9y ago
In most countries you only have the option to watch YouTube for free with ads.
- ythn 9y ago
  So your options are to watch with ads or not watch. Why is this so hard? If Walmart only let you "buy" DVDs at the checkout by watching ads that the cashier shows you, how is it okay to just steal the DVDs because you don't want to watch the ads?
  - jhasse 9y ago
    Not watching YouTube isn't a realistic option in some cases (e.g. there are jobs where you'd get fired if you refuse to use YouTube, or you need to watch YouTube to be part of a social group). I can buy DVDs somewhere else, while most Internet videos are only on YouTube nowadays.

by ythn 9y ago

nathan_long 9y ago

If I mute the TV and go to the bathroom while the commercials play, am I stealing? If I read a magazine and flip past the ads, am I stealing? If I change the channel on the radio on a commercial break, am I stealing? I understand what you're saying about the producer's dependence on ad revenue. But never before has a media existed where someone could force you to consume advertising against your will. If you provide content with ads and people decline to look at your ads, you've got a problem with your business model. And by the way, I don't block ads on, eg, StackOverflow, because the ads are tasteful and useful. But if a site with news articles wants to show me animated, sexually suggestive ads for cheap pharmaceuticals, yes, I'm going to block that. I'm not going to let them steal my bandwidth and my mental calm for that.

ythn 9y ago
> If I mute the TV and go to the bathroom while the commercials play, am I stealing? If I read a magazine and flip past the ads, am I stealing? If I change the channel on the radio on a commercial break, am I stealing? I think everyone can agree that adblockers go far beyond these examples you listed. Adblockers are an automated, shareable process. > But never before has a media existed where someone could force you to look at advertising against your will. Last time I checked nothing is stopping you from muting your computer and going to the bathroom during ads. Like I said, you just want your cake and eat it too. If you block ads on my website and I detect it, It's fully within my rights to blacklist you for stealing.
zaphar 9y ago
You can mute your computer and go to the bathroom while watching youtube or amazon video. You've lost none of the rights that you had with the tv. It's a terrible analogy that people should stop using in this debate. You can debate about whether it's good business on their part. You can debate about whether they should force drm onto your computer. But you can't reasonably debate that just because it's on the web they shouldn't be allowed enter into a financial exchange with consumers and that they shouldn't be able to refuse to do business with people who do not wish to enter into that exchange with them.
- userbinator 9y ago
  You can mute your computer and go to the bathroom while watching youtube or amazon video. ...until they find a way to detect whether you actually viewed the ads, or maybe even retained any of the content from them. But you can't reasonably debate that just because it's on the web they shouldn't be allowed enter into a financial exchange with consumers and that they shouldn't be able to refuse to do business with people who do not wish to enter into that exchange with them. You're implying that it's OK for consumers to essentially be force-fed ads, if these companies eventually develop such technology that lets them do so. Do you really want to live in such a society?
  - zaphar 9y ago
    You're implying that it's OK for consumers to essentially be force-fed ads Nowhere did I imply that. I implied that it's ok for consumers to be forced to transact for content in the same way that they are forced to pay for the food at their grocery store. And yes I am fine living is such a society. I can always choose not to enter into the transaction. No one is forcing me to watch Youtube, Or read a blog, Or listen to a podcast.
nathan_long 9y ago
Can't reply below, but: > If you block ads on my website and I detect it, It's fully within my rights to blacklist you for stealing. Other than the word "stealing", I agree. It's fully within your rights to block or allow access however you want. And it's fully within my rights to decide whether to look at your ads. You control your server. I control my browser. This is good.

jhasse 9y ago

In most countries you only have the option to watch YouTube for free with ads.

ythn 9y ago
So your options are to watch with ads or not watch. Why is this so hard? If Walmart only let you "buy" DVDs at the checkout by watching ads that the cashier shows you, how is it okay to just steal the DVDs because you don't want to watch the ads?
- jhasse 9y ago
  Not watching YouTube isn't a realistic option in some cases (e.g. there are jobs where you'd get fired if you refuse to use YouTube, or you need to watch YouTube to be part of a social group). I can buy DVDs somewhere else, while most Internet videos are only on YouTube nowadays.