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Prohibition is one of the most pernicious ideas within our society. It enables people to prey on the weak and vulnerable. Whether we like it or not, people will

by awjr 9y ago

Prohibition is one of the most pernicious ideas within our society. It enables people to prey on the weak and vulnerable. Whether we like it or not, people will seek out chemicals to make their day better, be it chocolate, coffee, wine, or heroine. Governments should be recognising this base behaviour and ensure that those chemicals are available safely and taxed appropriately. Treating drug addiction as a medical condition and not a criminal activity is the first step. Something many countries fail to even recognise. The war on drugs is a complete failure.

jorgec 9y ago
> Whether we like it or not, people will seek out chemicals to make their day better, be it chocolate, coffee, wine, or heroine. Its excuse.
- awjr 9y ago
  Ah the "they are weak" argument. Humans are fallible. Don't judge individuals by your god like ability to only survive on mineral water and lettuce.
Jizzle 9y ago
be it chocolate, coffee, wine, or [heroin] ensure that those chemicals are available safely and taxed appropriately While I agree that prohibition has proven time and again to be a terrible thing, I'd also argue that some drugs are so dangerous in small doses that sale should never be sanctioned. Still, I would not argue in favor of strict punishments for sale nor use, especially. Issues of sale should come with punishments similar to improper business practices--tax evasion, fraud, etc--based on the scope and scale of the transactions. As you point out, people often seek certain substances because at some level they feel it will make things better. The improvement they seek may be proportional to the strength of the substance, meaning those seeking out street drugs are probably also in the most dire straits. From that perspective, punishment seems quite cruel--kicking a person when they're already down.
- XorNot 9y ago
  The thing is you can make it illegal to sell without being illegal to consume. There's an important difference there - product safety enforcement vs. morality policing. Particulary when most dangerous drugs are a result of chemical knockoffs to try and get around supply issues to making reasonably safe ones.
  - visarga 9y ago
    > The thing is you can make it illegal to sell without being illegal to consume. If they make it illegal to sell, then the state must sell it. Otherwise it just doesn't work. Why should people acting legally need to buy from criminals?
    - cklaus 9y ago
      If you look at Portugal, who has had the most success in reducing drugs, they decriminalized drugs. Which meant they kept them illegal, but if caught it was equivalent of parking ticket fine, but also if person hit a threshold of too many fines, there was drug addiction therapy required. Decriminalization removes the excessive fines, time in jail, and removes the criminal record black mark. Atlanta GA has decriminalized marijuana this year. If caught it's a $60 fee only. Previously it was $1000, up to 6 months in jail, and a criminal record. This decriminalization should be applied to all drugs. This has been proven to work, everywhere it has been tried.
- GuB-42 9y ago
  Depending on the way drugs are sold, penalties could, and probably should go as high as involuntary manslaughter. Dealers often misrepresent what they sell, cutting with toxic chemicals, lying about purity or even selling an entire different product. With drugs as potent as opiates, it could mean death. In fact, I think this is the leading cause of death by drug use. These practices should be much more penalized than just selling the drug, even if both are illegal. Just like armed robbery is more severely punished than shoplifting.
  - 9y ago
jstanley 9y ago
> Whether we like it or not, people will seek out chemicals to make their day better, be it chocolate, coffee, wine, or heroine. And most importantly, whether we like it or not has absolutely no bearing on whether it's acceptable to limit somebody else's right to put whatever they want into their own body.
hungerstrike 9y ago
The war on drugs is a massive success for the people who profit from it. It's not just drug dealers and cartels who profit from illegal drugs, it's the law enforcement industry as well and of course shadowy groups like the CIA who need money for black ops.

by awjr 9y ago

jorgec 9y ago

> Whether we like it or not, people will seek out chemicals to make their day better, be it chocolate, coffee, wine, or heroine. Its excuse.

awjr 9y ago
Ah the "they are weak" argument. Humans are fallible. Don't judge individuals by your god like ability to only survive on mineral water and lettuce.

Jizzle 9y ago

be it chocolate, coffee, wine, or [heroin] ensure that those chemicals are available safely and taxed appropriately While I agree that prohibition has proven time and again to be a terrible thing, I'd also argue that some drugs are so dangerous in small doses that sale should never be sanctioned. Still, I would not argue in favor of strict punishments for sale nor use, especially. Issues of sale should come with punishments similar to improper business practices--tax evasion, fraud, etc--based on the scope and scale of the transactions. As you point out, people often seek certain substances because at some level they feel it will make things better. The improvement they seek may be proportional to the strength of the substance, meaning those seeking out street drugs are probably also in the most dire straits. From that perspective, punishment seems quite cruel--kicking a person when they're already down.

XorNot 9y ago
The thing is you can make it illegal to sell without being illegal to consume. There's an important difference there - product safety enforcement vs. morality policing. Particulary when most dangerous drugs are a result of chemical knockoffs to try and get around supply issues to making reasonably safe ones.
- visarga 9y ago
  > The thing is you can make it illegal to sell without being illegal to consume. If they make it illegal to sell, then the state must sell it. Otherwise it just doesn't work. Why should people acting legally need to buy from criminals?
  - cklaus 9y ago
    If you look at Portugal, who has had the most success in reducing drugs, they decriminalized drugs. Which meant they kept them illegal, but if caught it was equivalent of parking ticket fine, but also if person hit a threshold of too many fines, there was drug addiction therapy required. Decriminalization removes the excessive fines, time in jail, and removes the criminal record black mark. Atlanta GA has decriminalized marijuana this year. If caught it's a $60 fee only. Previously it was $1000, up to 6 months in jail, and a criminal record. This decriminalization should be applied to all drugs. This has been proven to work, everywhere it has been tried.
GuB-42 9y ago
Depending on the way drugs are sold, penalties could, and probably should go as high as involuntary manslaughter. Dealers often misrepresent what they sell, cutting with toxic chemicals, lying about purity or even selling an entire different product. With drugs as potent as opiates, it could mean death. In fact, I think this is the leading cause of death by drug use. These practices should be much more penalized than just selling the drug, even if both are illegal. Just like armed robbery is more severely punished than shoplifting.
- 9y ago

jstanley 9y ago

> Whether we like it or not, people will seek out chemicals to make their day better, be it chocolate, coffee, wine, or heroine. And most importantly, whether we like it or not has absolutely no bearing on whether it's acceptable to limit somebody else's right to put whatever they want into their own body.

hungerstrike 9y ago

The war on drugs is a massive success for the people who profit from it. It's not just drug dealers and cartels who profit from illegal drugs, it's the law enforcement industry as well and of course shadowy groups like the CIA who need money for black ops.