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I think I disagree with him here. I tend to think that examples like his (polarizing topics) are distracting to the message of the content. I teach students,

I think I disagree with him here. I tend to think that examples like his (polarizing topics) are distracting to the message of the content. I teach students, and they are, quite literally, paying me for my knowledge and experience about that subject, not for me to distract everyone with my personal opinions about unrelated issues. I doubt that any of them even know my political beliefs.

ericand 9y ago
I'm with you. I find these examples distracting if not annoying.
- ianai 9y ago
  It’s just a book. He’s taken it a direction that decreases his audience. It sounds like he’s probably published and sold enough copy to be able to be picky about readership. You’re welcome to not purchase this material. He’s also welcome to write and publish it. Otherwise, I think he could have tried to depolarize his examples or take them a more light/comedic direction. Maybe a “murder count” to classification switch clause with a silly Megadeth reference. If it fits the criteria, then put in the wc procedure, etc. there’s always a way to spice up examples without being outright biased.
  - laumars 9y ago
    To be fair, if I'd been writing about PL/SQL - which is possibly the worst language ever conceived - for as long as that author had, I think I might start to go a little mad with the examples after a while as well.
Retra 9y ago
You don't know what your students are paying you for. Maybe it's just a piece of paper. Maybe it's specialized knowledge. Or to fulfill a cultural obligation. Maybe it's to babysit them while the find a spouse. Or Maybe it is for a political awakening. They could be paying to to be challenged. I mean, just because I show up at the cash register and pay for a screwdriver doesn't mean you get to dictate that I obviously must be out to drive some screws. That's a very one-dimensional and frankly impotent worldview. How the shit is democracy supposed to work when politics is a taboo subject anyhow. >I doubt that any of them even know my political beliefs. So I don't know what your point is supposed to be here... That somehow your students' ignorance of your beliefs justifies an assertion that they should be ignorant of your beliefs?
whack 9y ago
Different people write books for very different reasons, with very different styles. Some want to maximize their profits. Some want to be formal, and 100% focused on the core-topic. Some want to please every single potential reader. And some see it as an avenue for self-expression and having some "fun" on the side. The author probably knows that his writing style is going to turn off a number of potential readers, which in turn is going to reduce the amount of money he can make. Clearly he has decided that he's ok with this. He has even gone out of his way to warn readers, so I don't think anyone is justified in complaining. He's entitled to write books in any style he finds fulfilling, just as everyone's entitled to boycott his books if they don't like it.
- ianai 9y ago
  “And some see it as an avenue for self-expression and having some "fun" on the side.” this usually leads to more interesting reads. Not for everybody, but even Shakespeare had contemporary critics.
aurelian15 9y ago
Well, I see where you are coming from, and I don't necessarily agree that the examples he chose are very good ones. However, I think the overall point he makes is worth some consideration. Many technical books (consciously or unconsciously on part of the author) frame software as something that primarily satisfies commercial or business interests. If you want, that in itself is a pretty polarising agenda, and I often found myself moaning when reading yet another database book that gives "managing employees" as an example. Why not use something mostly unbiased, such as "invitations for your birthday party"? That being said, I also agree with the author on the lack of public discourse in North America. I recently moved to Canada and I am astounded by how little politics are discussed here, even in those places where they should be discussed (e.g., take a look at the trifle on the CBC News website "Politics" section). Democracy lives from talking about controversial matters, and I always get angry at people suggesting "not to talk about these things at work (or family dinner for that matter)". This is not how we move things forward! This is how I radically changed my mind on many matters over the course of years. So, I'd suggest that we should embrace the extremes, discuss them in a civilised manner, and meet somewhere in the middle. Avoiding these topics altogether is only strengthening polarisation. Whether a book about technology is the right place to do so, is rightly open for debate.
- slavik81 9y ago
  > I recently moved to Canada and I am astounded by how little politics are discussed here, even those places where they should be discussed If you're in Ontario, take a look at The Agenda with Steve Paikin. It is the gold standard of Canadian political discourse. It fills some of that niche you refer to with well-moderated interviews and discussions with various experts and stakeholders on political topics of regional, provincial or national interest, airing five nights a week on public television and the web. But, speaking as a Canadian looking in on the US, I often get the feeling that Americans hate each other. I'm glad we don't have as much of that dysfunctional political animosity here. Our conflict-avoidance has its own issues, but we're definitely getting a lot out of the values of peace, order and good government.
- watwut 9y ago
  The birthday party example makes database look pointless. I can imagine company big enough to need database for employees, birthday party is more practical inside a text file. I strongly prefer those democratic controversies not affecting my work. One reason for keeping it out is so that people who think each others opinions are horrible/unnatural can still produce work together.
Splines 9y ago
I agree with the article, at least in that our values and beliefs end up embedded in the examples (e.g., all the emp/dept examples). You need to use some kind of data to help the reader, an abstract concept isn't going to work. I do disagree with the author in that pushing a political viewpoint in an example is in poor taste and makes understanding the example difficult for readers unfamiliar with any jargon. Maybe examples that draw from nature (e.g., taxonomy hierarchy) or the humanities (e.g., cataloging a library) would be different enough to be refreshing and less... capitalistic.
specialist 9y ago
Politically charged examples is a great strategy. I've wondered if there some kind of license that would prohibit trogs from using my tools. I hadn't thought of just offending the people I don't like, so they'd reject me and my efforts first. Kinda like judo. Genius.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
fahayekwasright 9y ago
Your political beliefs can’t harm them in any way though. Examples are a silly thing to get upset about.

ericand 9y ago

I'm with you. I find these examples distracting if not annoying.

ianai 9y ago
It’s just a book. He’s taken it a direction that decreases his audience. It sounds like he’s probably published and sold enough copy to be able to be picky about readership. You’re welcome to not purchase this material. He’s also welcome to write and publish it. Otherwise, I think he could have tried to depolarize his examples or take them a more light/comedic direction. Maybe a “murder count” to classification switch clause with a silly Megadeth reference. If it fits the criteria, then put in the wc procedure, etc. there’s always a way to spice up examples without being outright biased.
- laumars 9y ago
  To be fair, if I'd been writing about PL/SQL - which is possibly the worst language ever conceived - for as long as that author had, I think I might start to go a little mad with the examples after a while as well.

Retra 9y ago

You don't know what your students are paying you for. Maybe it's just a piece of paper. Maybe it's specialized knowledge. Or to fulfill a cultural obligation. Maybe it's to babysit them while the find a spouse. Or Maybe it is for a political awakening. They could be paying to to be challenged. I mean, just because I show up at the cash register and pay for a screwdriver doesn't mean you get to dictate that I obviously must be out to drive some screws. That's a very one-dimensional and frankly impotent worldview. How the shit is democracy supposed to work when politics is a taboo subject anyhow. >I doubt that any of them even know my political beliefs. So I don't know what your point is supposed to be here... That somehow your students' ignorance of your beliefs justifies an assertion that they should be ignorant of your beliefs?

whack 9y ago

Different people write books for very different reasons, with very different styles. Some want to maximize their profits. Some want to be formal, and 100% focused on the core-topic. Some want to please every single potential reader. And some see it as an avenue for self-expression and having some "fun" on the side. The author probably knows that his writing style is going to turn off a number of potential readers, which in turn is going to reduce the amount of money he can make. Clearly he has decided that he's ok with this. He has even gone out of his way to warn readers, so I don't think anyone is justified in complaining. He's entitled to write books in any style he finds fulfilling, just as everyone's entitled to boycott his books if they don't like it.

ianai 9y ago
“And some see it as an avenue for self-expression and having some "fun" on the side.” this usually leads to more interesting reads. Not for everybody, but even Shakespeare had contemporary critics.

aurelian15 9y ago

Well, I see where you are coming from, and I don't necessarily agree that the examples he chose are very good ones. However, I think the overall point he makes is worth some consideration. Many technical books (consciously or unconsciously on part of the author) frame software as something that primarily satisfies commercial or business interests. If you want, that in itself is a pretty polarising agenda, and I often found myself moaning when reading yet another database book that gives "managing employees" as an example. Why not use something mostly unbiased, such as "invitations for your birthday party"? That being said, I also agree with the author on the lack of public discourse in North America. I recently moved to Canada and I am astounded by how little politics are discussed here, even in those places where they should be discussed (e.g., take a look at the trifle on the CBC News website "Politics" section). Democracy lives from talking about controversial matters, and I always get angry at people suggesting "not to talk about these things at work (or family dinner for that matter)". This is not how we move things forward! This is how I radically changed my mind on many matters over the course of years. So, I'd suggest that we should embrace the extremes, discuss them in a civilised manner, and meet somewhere in the middle. Avoiding these topics altogether is only strengthening polarisation. Whether a book about technology is the right place to do so, is rightly open for debate.

slavik81 9y ago
> I recently moved to Canada and I am astounded by how little politics are discussed here, even those places where they should be discussed If you're in Ontario, take a look at The Agenda with Steve Paikin. It is the gold standard of Canadian political discourse. It fills some of that niche you refer to with well-moderated interviews and discussions with various experts and stakeholders on political topics of regional, provincial or national interest, airing five nights a week on public television and the web. But, speaking as a Canadian looking in on the US, I often get the feeling that Americans hate each other. I'm glad we don't have as much of that dysfunctional political animosity here. Our conflict-avoidance has its own issues, but we're definitely getting a lot out of the values of peace, order and good government.
watwut 9y ago
The birthday party example makes database look pointless. I can imagine company big enough to need database for employees, birthday party is more practical inside a text file. I strongly prefer those democratic controversies not affecting my work. One reason for keeping it out is so that people who think each others opinions are horrible/unnatural can still produce work together.

Splines 9y ago

I agree with the article, at least in that our values and beliefs end up embedded in the examples (e.g., all the emp/dept examples). You need to use some kind of data to help the reader, an abstract concept isn't going to work. I do disagree with the author in that pushing a political viewpoint in an example is in poor taste and makes understanding the example difficult for readers unfamiliar with any jargon. Maybe examples that draw from nature (e.g., taxonomy hierarchy) or the humanities (e.g., cataloging a library) would be different enough to be refreshing and less... capitalistic.

specialist 9y ago

Politically charged examples is a great strategy. I've wondered if there some kind of license that would prohibit trogs from using my tools. I hadn't thought of just offending the people I don't like, so they'd reject me and my efforts first. Kinda like judo. Genius.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

fahayekwasright 9y ago

Your political beliefs can’t harm them in any way though. Examples are a silly thing to get upset about.