4 ms·

Quite a situation. Mozilla has basically one paying "customer" and it can only be one of two search engines. The concern here would be if they burn bridges wit

Quite a situation. Mozilla has basically one paying "customer" and it can only be one of two search engines. The concern here would be if they burn bridges with Yahoo, than they have less negotiating leverage with Google. I forget, is Yahoo search based on Bing, or is it the other way around, or is that deal dead?

StudentStuff 9y ago
Mozilla could go to DuckDuckGo, Bing, Ask, etc or a mix of search engines varying by country, a bidding process isn't unheard of (Opera did this).
- floatingatoll 9y ago
  Or Yandex: https://blog.mozilla.org/press/2015/03/mozilla-makes-yandex-the-default-search-engine-for-firefox-in-turkey/ https://blog.mozilla.org/press/2015/03/mozilla-makes-yandex-...
- rgbrenner 9y ago
  Mozilla already did this. The google deal was global.. but the yahoo deal was not. Yahoo only purchased the US default. And Mozilla signed deals with Baidu for China, and Yandex for Russia at the same time. Google was left as the default for all other countries. https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2014/11/19/promoting-choice-and-innovation-on-the-web/ https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2014/11/19/promoting-choice-an...
- Kiro 9y ago
  Why would they go to DDG instead of directly to the source (Bing)?
  - allenz 9y ago
    DDG has a stronger commitment to privacy. That said, DDG will almost certainly be outbid by other companies, and DDG will probably face problems scaling to that many users.
    - bad_user 9y ago
      It's not only the scaling as a technical problem, but also scaling their Microsoft/Bing relationship. DDG is effectively outsourcing the search infrastructure to Bing, which puts it in a precarious position. If DDG becomes the default in Firefox, will Microsoft accept the increased traffic or exposure? Will they keep their current commitment to DDG?
      - ocdtrekkie 9y ago
        Can you provide source of the claim that DDG search is 'outsourcing the search infrastructure Bing'? This appears to be a regular claim, but as far as I know, DDG buys search data from multiple parties, including Bing, Yandex, and many others. They have their own web crawler as well.
        bad_user 9y ago
        Because outside of Russia's Yandex that works well only in Russia and China's Baidu that works well in China, there's no other alternative. That "etc" in your sentence is not an "et cetera". Bing is the only game in town for Google alternatives. Here's a sample of what can happen: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/08/15/bing_microsoft_duckduckgo_outage/ https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/08/15/bing_microsoft_duck...
        ocdtrekkie 9y ago
        According to the Wikipedia page at least, DDG claims to have 400 sources and their own crawler. Etc definitely applies.
        detaro 9y ago
        If you look at the info page by DDG cited in Wikipedia, it'S over 400 sources for the "instant answers" section, not the normal search results, and the phrasing is at least unclear if their own crawler contributes to the normal search results. https://duck.co/help/results/sources https://duck.co/help/results/sources
- moz23 9y ago
  How much money does DuckDuckGo have to offer Mozilla? Mozilla do ask for quite a chunk of money when selling traffic (/users).
bitmapbrother 9y ago
If your only negotiating leverage against Google is going with Yahoo/Verizon then Google will call that bluff all day long. >I forget, is Yahoo search based on Bing, or is it the other way around, or is that deal dead? Both Google and Bing. >"Yahoo disclosed the details of a new search deal it's formed with Google after releasing its third-quarter earnings results today. Under the terms of a new arrangement effective October 1st and lasting until the end of 2018, Google will provide Yahoo with search ads, algorithmic search, and image search services for both desktop and mobile. And according to a regulatory filing, Yahoo will also get to decide which search queries to send to Google and will not have to meet a minimum requirement of queries." https://www.theverge.com/2015/10/20/9577519/yahoo-google-search-deal https://www.theverge.com/2015/10/20/9577519/yahoo-google-sea...
nugget 9y ago
Yahoo syndicates their search index from Bing (Microsoft) and adds a little UI differentiation on top. I hate to say it, but Verizon/AOL could easily run Yahoo's heavily partner-dependent search business into the ground. I already hear peer feedback about them becoming more bureaucratic and less practical, and starting to alienate other partners. By the time Mozilla needs some leverage against Google I'm sure they will find a willing counterparty in Microsoft. It's unlikely they will ever have to deal with Yahoo directly again.

StudentStuff 9y ago

Mozilla could go to DuckDuckGo, Bing, Ask, etc or a mix of search engines varying by country, a bidding process isn't unheard of (Opera did this).

floatingatoll 9y ago
Or Yandex: https://blog.mozilla.org/press/2015/03/mozilla-makes-yandex-the-default-search-engine-for-firefox-in-turkey/ https://blog.mozilla.org/press/2015/03/mozilla-makes-yandex-...
rgbrenner 9y ago
Mozilla already did this. The google deal was global.. but the yahoo deal was not. Yahoo only purchased the US default. And Mozilla signed deals with Baidu for China, and Yandex for Russia at the same time. Google was left as the default for all other countries. https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2014/11/19/promoting-choice-and-innovation-on-the-web/ https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2014/11/19/promoting-choice-an...
Kiro 9y ago
Why would they go to DDG instead of directly to the source (Bing)?
- allenz 9y ago
  DDG has a stronger commitment to privacy. That said, DDG will almost certainly be outbid by other companies, and DDG will probably face problems scaling to that many users.
  - bad_user 9y ago
    It's not only the scaling as a technical problem, but also scaling their Microsoft/Bing relationship. DDG is effectively outsourcing the search infrastructure to Bing, which puts it in a precarious position. If DDG becomes the default in Firefox, will Microsoft accept the increased traffic or exposure? Will they keep their current commitment to DDG?
    - ocdtrekkie 9y ago
      Can you provide source of the claim that DDG search is 'outsourcing the search infrastructure Bing'? This appears to be a regular claim, but as far as I know, DDG buys search data from multiple parties, including Bing, Yandex, and many others. They have their own web crawler as well.
      - bad_user 9y ago
        Because outside of Russia's Yandex that works well only in Russia and China's Baidu that works well in China, there's no other alternative. That "etc" in your sentence is not an "et cetera". Bing is the only game in town for Google alternatives. Here's a sample of what can happen: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/08/15/bing_microsoft_duckduckgo_outage/ https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/08/15/bing_microsoft_duck...
        ocdtrekkie 9y ago
        According to the Wikipedia page at least, DDG claims to have 400 sources and their own crawler. Etc definitely applies.
        detaro 9y ago
        If you look at the info page by DDG cited in Wikipedia, it'S over 400 sources for the "instant answers" section, not the normal search results, and the phrasing is at least unclear if their own crawler contributes to the normal search results. https://duck.co/help/results/sources https://duck.co/help/results/sources
moz23 9y ago
How much money does DuckDuckGo have to offer Mozilla? Mozilla do ask for quite a chunk of money when selling traffic (/users).

bitmapbrother 9y ago

If your only negotiating leverage against Google is going with Yahoo/Verizon then Google will call that bluff all day long. >I forget, is Yahoo search based on Bing, or is it the other way around, or is that deal dead? Both Google and Bing. >"Yahoo disclosed the details of a new search deal it's formed with Google after releasing its third-quarter earnings results today. Under the terms of a new arrangement effective October 1st and lasting until the end of 2018, Google will provide Yahoo with search ads, algorithmic search, and image search services for both desktop and mobile. And according to a regulatory filing, Yahoo will also get to decide which search queries to send to Google and will not have to meet a minimum requirement of queries." https://www.theverge.com/2015/10/20/9577519/yahoo-google-search-deal https://www.theverge.com/2015/10/20/9577519/yahoo-google-sea...

nugget 9y ago

Yahoo syndicates their search index from Bing (Microsoft) and adds a little UI differentiation on top. I hate to say it, but Verizon/AOL could easily run Yahoo's heavily partner-dependent search business into the ground. I already hear peer feedback about them becoming more bureaucratic and less practical, and starting to alienate other partners. By the time Mozilla needs some leverage against Google I'm sure they will find a willing counterparty in Microsoft. It's unlikely they will ever have to deal with Yahoo directly again.