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It's so boring to read Grubers fan posts over and over again.. Why are they so popular on HN? They are usually full of subjective opinions on how great Apple is

by buster 16y ago

It's so boring to read Grubers fan posts over and over again.. Why are they so popular on HN? They are usually full of subjective opinions on how great Apple is, nothing more.

robgough 16y ago
I always presumed that's why the originating website appears in brackets next to a headline. So you can avoid reading sites you aren't interested in. I'm surprised this so far has alluded you.
- drivebyacct2 16y ago
  No, I think he's asking a legitimate question. Who finds these enjoyable to read? iPhone fanboys that love being told what they want to hear? What other purpose does it serve to not only write about the antenna for the dozenth time, but to post it on HN yet again?
  - robgough 16y ago
    I shouldn't have gone sarcastic at the end there, but I was quite serious. I presume the front-page algorithm has some sort of "magic" in it so that the only articles making it to the front page are that which a significant proportion of the user base would want there. Is that not correct? Not every post is going to be interesting everyone, but as I mentioned before, the originating URL makes it easy to spot ones from URL's you know that you're not interested in. Myself, I am a bit of an apple fanboy - and seeing what other HN-ers opinions are on Grubers posts does interest me. I think there are probably a fair few apple fanboys on HN who agree with me. On a similar, but unrelated note, most (not all) of the articles I read on HN I've already seen through some other means anyway. It's really only the comments that I'm interested in, which are generally of vastly superior quality than that of the originating site (if it has them). edit: at the time of writing, the story does only have 8 votes. Is HN using popularity of previous stories from that domain to push it to the front page quicker? It does seem a little odd - maybe I'm wrong, and the users of HN really don't care about this story anymore.
    - BobbyH 16y ago
      HN does not use the popularity of previous stories from that domain as a weight. It uses the number of votes, adjusted for the amount of time it's been since the link or comment was added. So if a story has 8 votes after 1 minute, it will rank much higher than a story that has 8 votes after 1 day. details: http://blog.linkibol.com/2010/05/07/how-to-build-a-popularity-algorithm-you-can-be-proud-of/ http://blog.linkibol.com/2010/05/07/how-to-build-a-popularit...
    - drivebyacct2 16y ago
      I understand this. Which part of this particular Gruber post was new, interesting, analytical, etc? It was repetition of news that surely everywhere here is aware of, along with Gruber's double think to explain that an antenna antenuating when touched is not a fundamental flaw of an antenna. "seeing what other HN-ers opinions are on Grubers posts does interest me". This seems exceeding obvious at this point, the comments are nearly identical on any of Gruber's latest posts.
  - ubernostrum 16y ago
    No, I think he's asking a legitimate question. Who finds these enjoyable to read? Most likely, the people who voted it up.
    - drivebyacct2 16y ago
      I meant "why". I thought that was obvious from how I asked my question.
      - ubernostrum 16y ago
        What was obvious from how you asked your question was that you have some sort of grudge and wanted to bash on people you didn't like (e.g., "iPhone fanboys"). At any rate, other users aren't answerable to you for their votes.
- buster 16y ago
  But i didn't ask how i can avoid clicking those links.. i asked why they still are so popular and frequent to see on HN. I guess every blog post of Gruber is posted here (which in itself is fine), but every blog post of Gruber also gets enough votes to stay on the frontpage for a rather long time. I've seen more interesting (and objective) posts that didn't even make it to the frontpage. Of course, "interesting" is rather subjective, but i guess you understand what i mean.
  - robgough 16y ago
    Re-reading your comment, you did ask why they were so popular. Must have mis-read that at the time - sorry. I was a little twitchy, as I'm tired of seeing "why has this been posted" style comments. As I said in one of my other comments though, I think there is a large proportion of Apple fans here on HN, who are genuinely interested. Most of those are probably subscribed by RSS anyway, but are curious as to what other HNers think. I'm smart enough to not try talking Apple to the majority of people I know IRL, and I'm not quite brave(?) enough to browse the apple-specific discussion forums. They tend to be filled with too many fanboys and haters, whereas HN tends to be a little more something-inbetween. edit: fixed minor typo
    - buster 16y ago
      yes, correct.. Here is how i think of it: For me HN is still one of the best pages to look for news, and everytime one of those fanboy/flamewar topics makes it to the frontpage, another interesting topic doesn't make it. I would have thought people are mature enough not to upvote those random subjective blogs, it's just not objective enough to be news for me, that's why i don't like them. I can live with the smartphone market share news, because they tend to be based on some companies numbers... Anyway, i guess this will be downvoted again, whatever.. i'll just shut up and try to ignore daringfireball links.
antidaily 16y ago
Agreed. He's become a whiney apologist. Every post is more infuriating. And I love Apple.
- tvon 16y ago
  I think he's gone downhill a bit since Jobs referenced his blog a few months back.
tptacek 16y ago
(a) A significant chunk of HN'ers tend to agree with Gruber, (b) a significant chunk of HN'ers at least tend to learn things from Gruber posts (ie, the scuttlebutt that antenna-exec-guy was canned), (c) Gruber tends to be addressing issues that have captured the attention of HN, (d) Gruber captures the "quasi-official" "pro-Apple" side of those issues better than any other blog, and (e) Gruber's posts are extraordinarily well-written and people like reading them for that reason. It's incredibly boring --- almost daft --- to complain that Gruber takes Apple's side in these posts. No shit, really, Gruber's pro-Apple, you say? Gruber has absolutely no incentive to be more fair to Apple's opponents than he is. He's not writing for HN; he's getting posted here by people who think he writes interesting stuff.
- buster 16y ago
  I get that, but that's a shame. It's like stating that the Sun (the magazine) or the "Bild" (german magazine) are well written and respected journals because they are read by millions of people. I always hated how those magazines can be read by so many people. Or to rephrase that: If it's news (it's Hacker NEWS, right?), the first and most important point is that the article is objective and neutral. Atleast for me. And that's why i don't like those links on the frontpage, just as i don't like the suns, the mirrors or the "bilds" frontpage. Or to put it yet another way: daringfireball.net is the subjective opinion of a single person who seems to rephrase a lot of apples marketing talk. It's not journalism, it's not news, there is often no objective proof, no scientific proof, just the personal opinion of a single person. It doesn't belong on a page that has a certain quality. In a news magazine, i'd rate that as bad journalism, bad news. And again, this page is for news, i thought.
  - tptacek 16y ago
    You just ignored 2/3 of my comment to focus on "yes, Gruber is pro-Mac".
  - gojomo 16y ago
    I prefer reporting with a strong point of view to that which adopts an "objective and neutral" pose. Perhaps because he's so pro-Apple, he sometimes has new details -- as in this piece, that the internal bug for the antenna issue was two years old.
speby 16y ago
No kidding. I don't care that there is a significant portion of HN'ers that like him and agree with him. Maybe its more a problem with the HN community than with Gruber himself; a sign, perhaps, that the HN community has had its day. I have recently tweeted about how boring and lame Gruber's posts are. I mean, kudos to the man for getting a huge following by typing out this constantly pro-AAPL drivel but it stinks when it pours over into communities I do tend to care about, or at least used to. And, when I point it out, as you have done, people here point fingers back at me defending the poor guy. Like he even needs to be defended, really?
pg 16y ago
Would you care to pick out something he said that you believe is false, and explain why?

by buster 16y ago

It's so boring to read Grubers fan posts over and over again.. Why are they so popular on HN? They are usually full of subjective opinions on how great Apple is, nothing more.

robgough 16y ago

I always presumed that's why the originating website appears in brackets next to a headline. So you can avoid reading sites you aren't interested in. I'm surprised this so far has alluded you.

drivebyacct2 16y ago
No, I think he's asking a legitimate question. Who finds these enjoyable to read? iPhone fanboys that love being told what they want to hear? What other purpose does it serve to not only write about the antenna for the dozenth time, but to post it on HN yet again?
- robgough 16y ago
  I shouldn't have gone sarcastic at the end there, but I was quite serious. I presume the front-page algorithm has some sort of "magic" in it so that the only articles making it to the front page are that which a significant proportion of the user base would want there. Is that not correct? Not every post is going to be interesting everyone, but as I mentioned before, the originating URL makes it easy to spot ones from URL's you know that you're not interested in. Myself, I am a bit of an apple fanboy - and seeing what other HN-ers opinions are on Grubers posts does interest me. I think there are probably a fair few apple fanboys on HN who agree with me. On a similar, but unrelated note, most (not all) of the articles I read on HN I've already seen through some other means anyway. It's really only the comments that I'm interested in, which are generally of vastly superior quality than that of the originating site (if it has them). edit: at the time of writing, the story does only have 8 votes. Is HN using popularity of previous stories from that domain to push it to the front page quicker? It does seem a little odd - maybe I'm wrong, and the users of HN really don't care about this story anymore.
  - BobbyH 16y ago
    HN does not use the popularity of previous stories from that domain as a weight. It uses the number of votes, adjusted for the amount of time it's been since the link or comment was added. So if a story has 8 votes after 1 minute, it will rank much higher than a story that has 8 votes after 1 day. details: http://blog.linkibol.com/2010/05/07/how-to-build-a-popularity-algorithm-you-can-be-proud-of/ http://blog.linkibol.com/2010/05/07/how-to-build-a-popularit...
  - drivebyacct2 16y ago
    I understand this. Which part of this particular Gruber post was new, interesting, analytical, etc? It was repetition of news that surely everywhere here is aware of, along with Gruber's double think to explain that an antenna antenuating when touched is not a fundamental flaw of an antenna. "seeing what other HN-ers opinions are on Grubers posts does interest me". This seems exceeding obvious at this point, the comments are nearly identical on any of Gruber's latest posts.
- ubernostrum 16y ago
  No, I think he's asking a legitimate question. Who finds these enjoyable to read? Most likely, the people who voted it up.
  - drivebyacct2 16y ago
    I meant "why". I thought that was obvious from how I asked my question.
    - ubernostrum 16y ago
      What was obvious from how you asked your question was that you have some sort of grudge and wanted to bash on people you didn't like (e.g., "iPhone fanboys"). At any rate, other users aren't answerable to you for their votes.
buster 16y ago
But i didn't ask how i can avoid clicking those links.. i asked why they still are so popular and frequent to see on HN. I guess every blog post of Gruber is posted here (which in itself is fine), but every blog post of Gruber also gets enough votes to stay on the frontpage for a rather long time. I've seen more interesting (and objective) posts that didn't even make it to the frontpage. Of course, "interesting" is rather subjective, but i guess you understand what i mean.
- robgough 16y ago
  Re-reading your comment, you did ask why they were so popular. Must have mis-read that at the time - sorry. I was a little twitchy, as I'm tired of seeing "why has this been posted" style comments. As I said in one of my other comments though, I think there is a large proportion of Apple fans here on HN, who are genuinely interested. Most of those are probably subscribed by RSS anyway, but are curious as to what other HNers think. I'm smart enough to not try talking Apple to the majority of people I know IRL, and I'm not quite brave(?) enough to browse the apple-specific discussion forums. They tend to be filled with too many fanboys and haters, whereas HN tends to be a little more something-inbetween. edit: fixed minor typo
  - buster 16y ago
    yes, correct.. Here is how i think of it: For me HN is still one of the best pages to look for news, and everytime one of those fanboy/flamewar topics makes it to the frontpage, another interesting topic doesn't make it. I would have thought people are mature enough not to upvote those random subjective blogs, it's just not objective enough to be news for me, that's why i don't like them. I can live with the smartphone market share news, because they tend to be based on some companies numbers... Anyway, i guess this will be downvoted again, whatever.. i'll just shut up and try to ignore daringfireball links.

antidaily 16y ago

Agreed. He's become a whiney apologist. Every post is more infuriating. And I love Apple.

tvon 16y ago
I think he's gone downhill a bit since Jobs referenced his blog a few months back.

tptacek 16y ago

(a) A significant chunk of HN'ers tend to agree with Gruber, (b) a significant chunk of HN'ers at least tend to learn things from Gruber posts (ie, the scuttlebutt that antenna-exec-guy was canned), (c) Gruber tends to be addressing issues that have captured the attention of HN, (d) Gruber captures the "quasi-official" "pro-Apple" side of those issues better than any other blog, and (e) Gruber's posts are extraordinarily well-written and people like reading them for that reason. It's incredibly boring --- almost daft --- to complain that Gruber takes Apple's side in these posts. No shit, really, Gruber's pro-Apple, you say? Gruber has absolutely no incentive to be more fair to Apple's opponents than he is. He's not writing for HN; he's getting posted here by people who think he writes interesting stuff.

buster 16y ago
I get that, but that's a shame. It's like stating that the Sun (the magazine) or the "Bild" (german magazine) are well written and respected journals because they are read by millions of people. I always hated how those magazines can be read by so many people. Or to rephrase that: If it's news (it's Hacker NEWS, right?), the first and most important point is that the article is objective and neutral. Atleast for me. And that's why i don't like those links on the frontpage, just as i don't like the suns, the mirrors or the "bilds" frontpage. Or to put it yet another way: daringfireball.net is the subjective opinion of a single person who seems to rephrase a lot of apples marketing talk. It's not journalism, it's not news, there is often no objective proof, no scientific proof, just the personal opinion of a single person. It doesn't belong on a page that has a certain quality. In a news magazine, i'd rate that as bad journalism, bad news. And again, this page is for news, i thought.
- tptacek 16y ago
  You just ignored 2/3 of my comment to focus on "yes, Gruber is pro-Mac".
- gojomo 16y ago
  I prefer reporting with a strong point of view to that which adopts an "objective and neutral" pose. Perhaps because he's so pro-Apple, he sometimes has new details -- as in this piece, that the internal bug for the antenna issue was two years old.

speby 16y ago

No kidding. I don't care that there is a significant portion of HN'ers that like him and agree with him. Maybe its more a problem with the HN community than with Gruber himself; a sign, perhaps, that the HN community has had its day. I have recently tweeted about how boring and lame Gruber's posts are. I mean, kudos to the man for getting a huge following by typing out this constantly pro-AAPL drivel but it stinks when it pours over into communities I do tend to care about, or at least used to. And, when I point it out, as you have done, people here point fingers back at me defending the poor guy. Like he even needs to be defended, really?

pg 16y ago

Would you care to pick out something he said that you believe is false, and explain why?