4 ms·

I have a slightly different point of view: In Linux, I can easily monitor how much data, what kind of data are transferred to the remote IP and disable them on

by srcmap 9y ago

I have a slightly different point of view: In Linux, I can easily monitor how much data, what kind of data are transferred to the remote IP and disable them on per apps base anytime I want. In IOS, I can't do any of that. At most, I can only disable an app from using cell data. If anyone else know how to do monitor/block network connection on per APP base in IOS, I would love to hear about it. For me, it is a different between "trust" and "trust and verify". I use IOS and have some level of trust on Apple/IOS. But I don't trust majorities of the IOS APPs for security/privacy.

samat 9y ago
FYI, IOS is operating system for routers by Cisco. iOS is operating system for mobile devices by Apple.
- _hyn3 9y ago
  The funny part is the parent's comment applies perfectly well to either.
staplers 9y ago
If anyone else know how to do monitor/block network connection on per APP base in IOS, I would love to hear about it. I've been seeking a Little Snitch type connection monitor/firewall for iOS for some time. I believe Apple purposely makes this difficult/impossible on iPhones due to the constant metrics/analytics sent to Apple servers. Look at what they have done with turning off bluetooth and wifi from the Control Center.. It's really eye-opening to see how often Apple products ping home.
- matthewmacleod 9y ago
  I believe Apple purposely makes this difficult/impossible on iPhones due to the constant metrics/analytics sent to Apple servers. I don't think that follows. Allowing applications to intercept and mess with other application's network traffic would be an obvious security issue; that's far more likely to be the reason than some kind of vague "we want to track your data" thing. It's certainly possible that Apple could construct an appropriate API for allowing users to configure apps in such a fashion that they could monitor network traffic, much the same way as similar APIs exist for accessing e.g. photos. But since it's a niche application at best, I'm hardly surprised they haven't done so.
  - comex 9y ago
    Such an API already exists: the NetworkExtension APIs, specifically NEPacketTunnelProvider and NEAppProxyProvider. They're meant for VPNs, but it should be possible to use the same APIs to monitor traffic and send it on, rather than tunneling it through a VPN. (There is also NEFilterProvider, but that API is designed to run the filter in a tight sandbox that doesn't allow it any outbound communication, so that it can filter packets but not exfiltrate them.) …though if you're concerned about privacy, perhaps you should be using a real VPN anyway, in which case you could handle traffic monitoring and filtering on the server side. Edit: I guess the server-side approach wouldn't allow identifying on which app is making the connection. The NetworkExtension APIs, however, should allow that: you get a flow of NEPackets, each of which has a 'metadata' property containing a 'sourceAppUniqueIdentifier' and 'sourceAppSigningIdentifier'. I don't have personal experience using these APIs though.
  - staplers 9y ago
    Allowing applications to intercept and mess with other application's network traffic Look at your cellular data usage in "system services" .. Apple is already intercepting and sending home a lot of your information without your ability to stop it.
- djrogers 9y ago
  > Look at what they have done with turning off bluetooth and wifi from the Control Center.. It's really eye-opening to see how often Apple products ping home. Are you trying to imply that iOS devices ‘ping home’ when you disconnect from WiFi or Bluetooth? Or are you just complaining about the previous behavior (updated in 11.2 to be more obvious) that disconnected WiFi I stead of disabling it?
- feelin_googley 9y ago
  I block all that via firewall, authoritative DNS and gateway on home network. It works very well. Trying to accomplish this via an app on an un-rooted iPhone would be a headache, IMO, and ultimately is subject to defeat by Apple if they so choose. As seems to be the computing paradigm du jour, Apple more or less has "remote control" over these devices, whether through automatic updates, their control over an AppStore or some other mechanism. When someone buys an iPhone, there is an expectation that an ongoing relationship with the company is created. It is assumed every purchaser wants to use Apple's time servers, Apple's messaging service, Apple's cloud storage, Apple's software review process, etc. and there is no opt-out. Consequently the purchaser is expected to establish a means to identify themselves to the company (AppleID) in the future. Fingerprints may be collected, facial recognition, etc. Apple has the means to know its hardware customers, very well. It does not really feel like we own the hardware. More like a lease or rental. Feels like we are being used as a source of further revenue generation. A massive user base tethered to the company that it can use as a bargaining chip to make deals with other companies. Here is a different approach. Imagine you have two mobile devices. 1. An iPhone. 2. A portable computer running an open source OS that can act as firewall, authoritative DNS server and/or gateway. Apple has no control over #2. #1 can only access the internet through #2. #2 belongs solely to the user and it is controlled by the user, not any company. Perhaps one day we will see Apple controlling the user's routing table and any network settings entered by the user will be subservient to Apple's.
  - voltagex_ 9y ago
    If you use VoLTE or VoWiFi, your network settings are ignored for those - there's tunnels back the the carrier for voice/RCS.
    - feelin_googley 9y ago
      As you say, they are already controlling the routing table on the user's device for voice calls. Does the user opt-in to that or is it automatically turned on?
  - staplers 9y ago
pvg 9y ago
Random iOS apps can't just pull all your secrets out of SE and send them off somewhere. That's what makes recent iOS devices a better place to put a secret than your typical Linux box. 'Not being able to get a hold of your secrets' is a much better line of defense than 'I think I can make it hard for something to exfiltrate my secrets that they've pilfered'. Especially since the latter is probably not really true.
- srcmap 9y ago
  Virtual Keyboard Developer Leaked 31M Client Records (mackeepersecurity.com) Apple is sharing your facial wireframe with apps (washingtonpost.com)
  - pvg 9y ago
    None of these are secrets stored in SE, which is what this entire thread is about
- nyolfen 9y ago
  >'Not being able to get a hold of your secrets' is a much better line of defense than 'I think I can make it hard for something to exfiltrate my secrets that they've pilfered'. Especially since the latter is probably not really true. reminds me of this: > Air-gapped networks are isolated, separated both logically and physically from public networks. Although the feasibility of invading such systems has been demonstrated in recent years, exfiltration of data from air-gapped networks is still a challenging task. In this paper we present GSMem, a malware that can exfiltrate data through an air-gap over cellular frequencies. Rogue software on an infected target computer modulates and transmits electromagnetic signals at cellular frequencies by invoking specific memory-related instructions and utilizing the multi-channel memory architecture to amplify the transmission. Furthermore, we show that the transmitted signals can be received and demodulated by a rootkit placed in the baseband firmware of a nearby cellular phone. We present crucial design issues such as signal generation and reception, data modulation, and transmission detection. We implement a prototype of GSMem consisting of a transmitter and a receiver and evaluate its performance and limitations. Our current results demonstrate its efficacy and feasibility, achieving an effective transmission distance of 1 - 5.5 meters with a standard mobile phone. When using a dedicated, yet affordable hardware receiver, the effective distance reached over 30 meters. https://www.usenix.org/system/files/conference/usenixsecurity15/sec15-paper-guri-update.pdf https://www.usenix.org/system/files/conference/usenixsecurit...
comex 9y ago
Linking to my comment downthread in case you're using email notifications: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15857589 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15857589 It should be possible to write an app that does what you want; I'm not sure whether or not such apps already exist.

by srcmap 9y ago

samat 9y ago

FYI, IOS is operating system for routers by Cisco. iOS is operating system for mobile devices by Apple.

_hyn3 9y ago
The funny part is the parent's comment applies perfectly well to either.

staplers 9y ago

If anyone else know how to do monitor/block network connection on per APP base in IOS, I would love to hear about it. I've been seeking a Little Snitch type connection monitor/firewall for iOS for some time. I believe Apple purposely makes this difficult/impossible on iPhones due to the constant metrics/analytics sent to Apple servers. Look at what they have done with turning off bluetooth and wifi from the Control Center.. It's really eye-opening to see how often Apple products ping home.

matthewmacleod 9y ago
I believe Apple purposely makes this difficult/impossible on iPhones due to the constant metrics/analytics sent to Apple servers. I don't think that follows. Allowing applications to intercept and mess with other application's network traffic would be an obvious security issue; that's far more likely to be the reason than some kind of vague "we want to track your data" thing. It's certainly possible that Apple could construct an appropriate API for allowing users to configure apps in such a fashion that they could monitor network traffic, much the same way as similar APIs exist for accessing e.g. photos. But since it's a niche application at best, I'm hardly surprised they haven't done so.
- comex 9y ago
  Such an API already exists: the NetworkExtension APIs, specifically NEPacketTunnelProvider and NEAppProxyProvider. They're meant for VPNs, but it should be possible to use the same APIs to monitor traffic and send it on, rather than tunneling it through a VPN. (There is also NEFilterProvider, but that API is designed to run the filter in a tight sandbox that doesn't allow it any outbound communication, so that it can filter packets but not exfiltrate them.) …though if you're concerned about privacy, perhaps you should be using a real VPN anyway, in which case you could handle traffic monitoring and filtering on the server side. Edit: I guess the server-side approach wouldn't allow identifying on which app is making the connection. The NetworkExtension APIs, however, should allow that: you get a flow of NEPackets, each of which has a 'metadata' property containing a 'sourceAppUniqueIdentifier' and 'sourceAppSigningIdentifier'. I don't have personal experience using these APIs though.
- staplers 9y ago
  Allowing applications to intercept and mess with other application's network traffic Look at your cellular data usage in "system services" .. Apple is already intercepting and sending home a lot of your information without your ability to stop it.
djrogers 9y ago
> Look at what they have done with turning off bluetooth and wifi from the Control Center.. It's really eye-opening to see how often Apple products ping home. Are you trying to imply that iOS devices ‘ping home’ when you disconnect from WiFi or Bluetooth? Or are you just complaining about the previous behavior (updated in 11.2 to be more obvious) that disconnected WiFi I stead of disabling it?
feelin_googley 9y ago
I block all that via firewall, authoritative DNS and gateway on home network. It works very well. Trying to accomplish this via an app on an un-rooted iPhone would be a headache, IMO, and ultimately is subject to defeat by Apple if they so choose. As seems to be the computing paradigm du jour, Apple more or less has "remote control" over these devices, whether through automatic updates, their control over an AppStore or some other mechanism. When someone buys an iPhone, there is an expectation that an ongoing relationship with the company is created. It is assumed every purchaser wants to use Apple's time servers, Apple's messaging service, Apple's cloud storage, Apple's software review process, etc. and there is no opt-out. Consequently the purchaser is expected to establish a means to identify themselves to the company (AppleID) in the future. Fingerprints may be collected, facial recognition, etc. Apple has the means to know its hardware customers, very well. It does not really feel like we own the hardware. More like a lease or rental. Feels like we are being used as a source of further revenue generation. A massive user base tethered to the company that it can use as a bargaining chip to make deals with other companies. Here is a different approach. Imagine you have two mobile devices. 1. An iPhone. 2. A portable computer running an open source OS that can act as firewall, authoritative DNS server and/or gateway. Apple has no control over #2. #1 can only access the internet through #2. #2 belongs solely to the user and it is controlled by the user, not any company. Perhaps one day we will see Apple controlling the user's routing table and any network settings entered by the user will be subservient to Apple's.
- voltagex_ 9y ago
  If you use VoLTE or VoWiFi, your network settings are ignored for those - there's tunnels back the the carrier for voice/RCS.
  - feelin_googley 9y ago
    As you say, they are already controlling the routing table on the user's device for voice calls. Does the user opt-in to that or is it automatically turned on?
- staplers 9y ago

pvg 9y ago

Random iOS apps can't just pull all your secrets out of SE and send them off somewhere. That's what makes recent iOS devices a better place to put a secret than your typical Linux box. 'Not being able to get a hold of your secrets' is a much better line of defense than 'I think I can make it hard for something to exfiltrate my secrets that they've pilfered'. Especially since the latter is probably not really true.

srcmap 9y ago
Virtual Keyboard Developer Leaked 31M Client Records (mackeepersecurity.com) Apple is sharing your facial wireframe with apps (washingtonpost.com)
- pvg 9y ago
  None of these are secrets stored in SE, which is what this entire thread is about
nyolfen 9y ago
>'Not being able to get a hold of your secrets' is a much better line of defense than 'I think I can make it hard for something to exfiltrate my secrets that they've pilfered'. Especially since the latter is probably not really true. reminds me of this: > Air-gapped networks are isolated, separated both logically and physically from public networks. Although the feasibility of invading such systems has been demonstrated in recent years, exfiltration of data from air-gapped networks is still a challenging task. In this paper we present GSMem, a malware that can exfiltrate data through an air-gap over cellular frequencies. Rogue software on an infected target computer modulates and transmits electromagnetic signals at cellular frequencies by invoking specific memory-related instructions and utilizing the multi-channel memory architecture to amplify the transmission. Furthermore, we show that the transmitted signals can be received and demodulated by a rootkit placed in the baseband firmware of a nearby cellular phone. We present crucial design issues such as signal generation and reception, data modulation, and transmission detection. We implement a prototype of GSMem consisting of a transmitter and a receiver and evaluate its performance and limitations. Our current results demonstrate its efficacy and feasibility, achieving an effective transmission distance of 1 - 5.5 meters with a standard mobile phone. When using a dedicated, yet affordable hardware receiver, the effective distance reached over 30 meters. https://www.usenix.org/system/files/conference/usenixsecurity15/sec15-paper-guri-update.pdf https://www.usenix.org/system/files/conference/usenixsecurit...

comex 9y ago

Linking to my comment downthread in case you're using email notifications: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15857589 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15857589 It should be possible to write an app that does what you want; I'm not sure whether or not such apps already exist.