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> Why can't you just stand up and, you know, flick the light switch I can, but I don't want to. Is that unreasonable? I've quite enjoyed adding automation to

> Why can't you just stand up and, you know, flick the light switch I can, but I don't want to. Is that unreasonable? I've quite enjoyed adding automation to my home. My outdoor lights slowly brighten as it gets dark outside - not by a timer, but by checking the actual times of sunrise / sunset as well as how cloudy it is, which might make it darker sooner. I can check my phone to ensure my doors are locked and my garage door is closed and my yard lights are off. I get a notification when the washer / dryer are finished. When I'm done working, I say a simple command and my office lights fade as my desktop locks. I can set timers and check my laundry and then wait the extra 5 minutes it adjusted to finish. I can log out and hit the switch on the way out. I can get up every evening and turn on the outside lights and then turn them off in the morning. I can adjust my thermostat once I get up instead of 15 minutes before. But I don't really want to. As a programmer, having an API for my home has been tons of fun. Controlling some of that API with my voice has been as well. That said, I've made sure everything still works when my pi is down, because sometimes a light switch is, you know, simpler.

jfk13 9y ago
> My outdoor lights slowly brighten as it gets dark outside - not by a timer, but by checking the actual times of sunrise / sunset as well as how cloudy it is, which might make it darker sooner. Sounds like a task best handled locally with a light sensor. Why mess with indirect inputs such as sunrise/sunset times and weather reports, which incidentally imply connectivity (and therefore more potential points of failure and vulnerabilities) when a simple, standalone solution exists?
- growse 9y ago
  Now you have to figure out where to put your light sensor so that it's not affected by the outdoor lights. And then get power / connectivity to it, keep it clean etc etc.
- zach 9y ago
  Sounds like a task that had better have a good software-only fallback, because not many people are going to have a light sensor. And if the software-only implementation works well enough, why would they buy one?
- enobrev 9y ago
  I may use a light sensor as a backup or even the primary driver for how bright the lights are. I just haven't gotten there yet. You're spot on about connectivity, although I could potentially keep a table of sunrise / sunset times to reference while offline. These outside lights were my very first foray into home automation after I'd moved into our new house. It's been working so well, that I just kept going with other things. Until this thread, I'd practically forgotten about the automation.
coldtea 9y ago
>I can, but I don't want to. Is that unreasonable? Yes. Consider the amount of movement/exercise the average western person gets, it might even be life threatening. It's based on the inability to distinguish between useful and marginal technology (especially when the latter also has tons of adverse side effects, such as security and privacy issues). >As a programmer, having an API for my home has been tons of fun. Controlling some of that API with my voice has been as well. As part of a hobby it can be OK (hobbies don't have to have utility, and we can even spend resources to have fun doing them). As it's sold (and bought for) to and by the masses, it's beyond useless.
- enobrev 9y ago
  I'm sorry, I don't see the connection between my health and whether or not I use light switches. That seems incredibly hyperbolic. I definitely don't exercise enough. Turning off my home automation is not a gym membership and a force of will. I agree that Security and Privacy issues are always important to consider, and ideally we in the tech industry will find better ways to educate the masses about the issues at hand.
  - coldtea 9y ago
    >I'm sorry, I don't see the connection between my health and whether or not I use light switches. That's because this is only considering the direct first order effects, and at isolation on this or that particular person, and not second order effects and general consequences of such an attitude. My argument was more about the latter. Having a particular (European) kind of mindset, I don't argue about what some unique snowflake might or might not do, not care about people's "personal responsibility" to balance things properly themselves. Instead I care about general trends and societal effects stemming from such an attitude. A person could have automated his lights and toiler flushing and whatever, and also be a multi-marathon runner. Perfectly possible, but obviously not statistically significant enough to base any argument upon.
- Kratisto 9y ago
  >Yes. Consider the amount of movement/exercise the average western person gets, it might even be life threatening. That seems like a massive stereotype there. I just don't see how changing the lighting in your house from a switch to audio could be "life threatening". You have zero idea what physical fitness the individual above does. I also don't understand how asking, "What is the weather like outside?" while tying your shoes is an issue. I don't think this is Asimov level of automation. It's just a mild convenience.

jfk13 9y ago

> My outdoor lights slowly brighten as it gets dark outside - not by a timer, but by checking the actual times of sunrise / sunset as well as how cloudy it is, which might make it darker sooner. Sounds like a task best handled locally with a light sensor. Why mess with indirect inputs such as sunrise/sunset times and weather reports, which incidentally imply connectivity (and therefore more potential points of failure and vulnerabilities) when a simple, standalone solution exists?

growse 9y ago
Now you have to figure out where to put your light sensor so that it's not affected by the outdoor lights. And then get power / connectivity to it, keep it clean etc etc.
zach 9y ago
Sounds like a task that had better have a good software-only fallback, because not many people are going to have a light sensor. And if the software-only implementation works well enough, why would they buy one?
enobrev 9y ago
I may use a light sensor as a backup or even the primary driver for how bright the lights are. I just haven't gotten there yet. You're spot on about connectivity, although I could potentially keep a table of sunrise / sunset times to reference while offline. These outside lights were my very first foray into home automation after I'd moved into our new house. It's been working so well, that I just kept going with other things. Until this thread, I'd practically forgotten about the automation.

coldtea 9y ago

>I can, but I don't want to. Is that unreasonable? Yes. Consider the amount of movement/exercise the average western person gets, it might even be life threatening. It's based on the inability to distinguish between useful and marginal technology (especially when the latter also has tons of adverse side effects, such as security and privacy issues). >As a programmer, having an API for my home has been tons of fun. Controlling some of that API with my voice has been as well. As part of a hobby it can be OK (hobbies don't have to have utility, and we can even spend resources to have fun doing them). As it's sold (and bought for) to and by the masses, it's beyond useless.

enobrev 9y ago
I'm sorry, I don't see the connection between my health and whether or not I use light switches. That seems incredibly hyperbolic. I definitely don't exercise enough. Turning off my home automation is not a gym membership and a force of will. I agree that Security and Privacy issues are always important to consider, and ideally we in the tech industry will find better ways to educate the masses about the issues at hand.
- coldtea 9y ago
  >I'm sorry, I don't see the connection between my health and whether or not I use light switches. That's because this is only considering the direct first order effects, and at isolation on this or that particular person, and not second order effects and general consequences of such an attitude. My argument was more about the latter. Having a particular (European) kind of mindset, I don't argue about what some unique snowflake might or might not do, not care about people's "personal responsibility" to balance things properly themselves. Instead I care about general trends and societal effects stemming from such an attitude. A person could have automated his lights and toiler flushing and whatever, and also be a multi-marathon runner. Perfectly possible, but obviously not statistically significant enough to base any argument upon.
Kratisto 9y ago
>Yes. Consider the amount of movement/exercise the average western person gets, it might even be life threatening. That seems like a massive stereotype there. I just don't see how changing the lighting in your house from a switch to audio could be "life threatening". You have zero idea what physical fitness the individual above does. I also don't understand how asking, "What is the weather like outside?" while tying your shoes is an issue. I don't think this is Asimov level of automation. It's just a mild convenience.