4 ms·

I think like, with most things, it's all about the tradeoff. I have one in my house in the living room. It basically exists to have an easy way of turning on S

I think like, with most things, it's all about the tradeoff. I have one in my house in the living room. It basically exists to have an easy way of turning on Spotify. We don't have sensitive conversations in the living room. If someone were listening, they'd mostly get me scolding my children and asking what's for dinner. The might also steal a token to connect to Spotify. My AWS account isn't linked to the same account as my Alexa, and requires TFA, so that's safe. I wouldn't put this device in my bedroom. I also was less interested when my kids were young enough that I might actually have a sensitive conversation anywhere. I'd considered putting one in my tv room to control the tv, but that's about it. I don't regard the Alexa as a greater vulnerability to my house than my phone, and I already accept owning a smart phone. I am concerned about the same things you are, but I view it as more of a trade-off than a simple "just don't do it!" attitude.

politician 9y ago
Depending on who's listening (post-processing recordings in bulk) and your tone, scolding your children might get you a visit from the authorities if over-eager busibodies are listening. Do we really need more of that?
- blacksmith_tb 9y ago
  I consider that a feature, not a bug - if mining data from always-on devices protected kids who were actually being abused, that would be a win. False positives can be tuned out.
  - ceejayoz 9y ago
    > False positives can be tuned out. oh-you.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McMartin_preschool_trial https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McMartin_preschool_trial
    - blacksmith_tb 9y ago
      I fail to see the connection. If Amazon began to analyze recordings to try and find real or even misconstrued abuse (presumably only after legislation required them to - I can't see a business case), they'd reasonably need to adjust what their algo flagged as a match. I'd be curious if Echo (or gHome, or Siri) do any sentiment analysis right now, they don't seem to (or cursing when they botch your command would at least produce more contrition).
      - politician 9y ago
        Nobody knew what Google was doing for two years. https://www.wired.com/2012/05/google-wifi-fcc-investigation/ https://www.wired.com/2012/05/google-wifi-fcc-investigation/ So, yeah, these appliances could be doing anything at any future point due to remote updates.
- actionscripted 9y ago
  Do you really think that's even in the realm of possibility? There is so much paranoia-driven FUD in these comments. But let's say that yes, this absurd hypothetical is possible and happens. Someone is capturing full audio from your device even though it allegedly only transmits when certain phrases are used (e.g., "Alexa..."). They've tunneled through your modem, router and AP and are capturing directly from your device. That same someone is somehow able to process hours of ambient sounds, conversations and everything else to pick out someone using an inappropriate tone with their children. They then take these recordings to a local child protection agency (e.g., CPS) and present the audio along with your information to develop an actionable case against you. That child protection agency then decides your tone was strong enough that they need to pursue legal action. How does this hold up in court? How does illegally-obtained audio stand as evidence? How are they able to prove it was you and not a relative or visitor? It won't hold up; this is insane. Your point about the wrong tone being used against you is insane. I get being paranoid and not trusting these devices but get real!
  - jrochkind1 9y ago
    You'd be surprised how crazy CPS is if you aren't wealthy and white. They don't actually seem to even need any "evidence" really. I agree it seems unlikely, though, especially if you are relatively wealthy and white. (Also who is hacking into your system with this as their goal and how likely is that? On the other hand, in the age of swatting, anything seems possible.) As we continue to advance universal surveillance though (self- and other-), I think we will start to see stuff like this happening more. It'll take a little while.
    - crooked-v 9y ago
      > You'd be surprised how crazy CPS is if you aren't wealthy and white. They don't actually seem to even need any "evidence" really. For example (white, but not wealthy): https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/04/13/parents-investigated-letting-children-walk-alone/25700823/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/04/13/parent... > Montgomery County police and county Children's Protective Services are jointly investigating the Meitivs of Silver Spring for allowing their children to walk repeatedly around the neighborhood alone. The parents say they know where their children are but are allowing them independence. > Officers picked up the children about two blocks from home, Rafi said, telling them they would drop them off at home. Instead, the two sat in a patrol car for 2½ hours then were taken about 10 miles away to Children's Protective Services offices in Rockville, Md.
vcvbvvvv 9y ago
> asking what's for dinner. Do you have a stay-at-home cook? How nice.
jgrahamc 9y ago
> We don't have sensitive conversations in the living room Wow. That seems like an amazing commitment. Do you have a SCIF where you discuss your bank statement with your SO?
- smileysteve 9y ago
  Given the Equifax leaks, you might reconsider if your bank statements aren't reasonably public information.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]

politician 9y ago

Depending on who's listening (post-processing recordings in bulk) and your tone, scolding your children might get you a visit from the authorities if over-eager busibodies are listening. Do we really need more of that?

blacksmith_tb 9y ago
I consider that a feature, not a bug - if mining data from always-on devices protected kids who were actually being abused, that would be a win. False positives can be tuned out.
- ceejayoz 9y ago
  > False positives can be tuned out. oh-you.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McMartin_preschool_trial https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McMartin_preschool_trial
  - blacksmith_tb 9y ago
    I fail to see the connection. If Amazon began to analyze recordings to try and find real or even misconstrued abuse (presumably only after legislation required them to - I can't see a business case), they'd reasonably need to adjust what their algo flagged as a match. I'd be curious if Echo (or gHome, or Siri) do any sentiment analysis right now, they don't seem to (or cursing when they botch your command would at least produce more contrition).
    - politician 9y ago
      Nobody knew what Google was doing for two years. https://www.wired.com/2012/05/google-wifi-fcc-investigation/ https://www.wired.com/2012/05/google-wifi-fcc-investigation/ So, yeah, these appliances could be doing anything at any future point due to remote updates.
actionscripted 9y ago
Do you really think that's even in the realm of possibility? There is so much paranoia-driven FUD in these comments. But let's say that yes, this absurd hypothetical is possible and happens. Someone is capturing full audio from your device even though it allegedly only transmits when certain phrases are used (e.g., "Alexa..."). They've tunneled through your modem, router and AP and are capturing directly from your device. That same someone is somehow able to process hours of ambient sounds, conversations and everything else to pick out someone using an inappropriate tone with their children. They then take these recordings to a local child protection agency (e.g., CPS) and present the audio along with your information to develop an actionable case against you. That child protection agency then decides your tone was strong enough that they need to pursue legal action. How does this hold up in court? How does illegally-obtained audio stand as evidence? How are they able to prove it was you and not a relative or visitor? It won't hold up; this is insane. Your point about the wrong tone being used against you is insane. I get being paranoid and not trusting these devices but get real!
- jrochkind1 9y ago
  You'd be surprised how crazy CPS is if you aren't wealthy and white. They don't actually seem to even need any "evidence" really. I agree it seems unlikely, though, especially if you are relatively wealthy and white. (Also who is hacking into your system with this as their goal and how likely is that? On the other hand, in the age of swatting, anything seems possible.) As we continue to advance universal surveillance though (self- and other-), I think we will start to see stuff like this happening more. It'll take a little while.
  - crooked-v 9y ago
    > You'd be surprised how crazy CPS is if you aren't wealthy and white. They don't actually seem to even need any "evidence" really. For example (white, but not wealthy): https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/04/13/parents-investigated-letting-children-walk-alone/25700823/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/04/13/parent... > Montgomery County police and county Children's Protective Services are jointly investigating the Meitivs of Silver Spring for allowing their children to walk repeatedly around the neighborhood alone. The parents say they know where their children are but are allowing them independence. > Officers picked up the children about two blocks from home, Rafi said, telling them they would drop them off at home. Instead, the two sat in a patrol car for 2½ hours then were taken about 10 miles away to Children's Protective Services offices in Rockville, Md.

vcvbvvvv 9y ago

> asking what's for dinner. Do you have a stay-at-home cook? How nice.

jgrahamc 9y ago

> We don't have sensitive conversations in the living room Wow. That seems like an amazing commitment. Do you have a SCIF where you discuss your bank statement with your SO?

smileysteve 9y ago
Given the Equifax leaks, you might reconsider if your bank statements aren't reasonably public information.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]