4 ms·

This is really cool (rooting devices is wonderful -- and they should all be open for home modifications!), but also not something that has any real effect on th

This is really cool (rooting devices is wonderful -- and they should all be open for home modifications!), but also not something that has any real effect on the average consumer. Physical attacks are, in my opinion, uninteresting, because you may as well just plant an old fashioned bug. Consumers should be wary of purchasing used devices like this generally. I am not, however, aware or any wide spread scams involving physical attacks on consumer electronics.

djsumdog 9y ago
Remember the Valut7 leaks contained an attack via USB on Samsung TVs. If you're targeted, an operative could infect your device in transit before it reaches you.
- BoorishBears 9y ago
  Why couldn't they just open your device and implant another device? It wouldn't even have to be conspicuous, maybe just replace a power supply board with something with an extra blob.
  - dTal 9y ago
    There's a pretty huge difference between "dismantle unit" and "insert USB drive". The latter could be done on a lunch break.
gregmac 9y ago
> Physical attacks are, in my opinion, uninteresting, because you may as well just plant an old fashioned bug. The one benefit is the target is going to specifically locate this device in a location where it can hear them, and will relocate it appropriately if they move furniture, rooms, houses, etc. There's nothing physical to discover to tip them off. It's a listening device disguised as a listening device. No need to hide, even though it's in plain sight.
- rightos 9y ago
  But it'd be trivial for them to slip an extra bit of hardware, wire it to the existing mic and use that to do all the actions they wish. At the point where someone has physical access to the device the game is over. This is not an attack - its an immutable law, if someone else has unrestricted physical access to your device, it's not your device anymore.
  - TeMPOraL 9y ago
    To be fair, planting a physical bug for longer-term surveillance is more difficult, because you need to worry about providing power to it, and about exfiltrating the data. A home assistant device, by its nature, has its owner ensuring both of those problems are solved for you.
    - kelnos 9y ago
      Right, and you also need to worry about it being found. There's nothing physical about this hack that would tip off the owner that they have an (unauthorized) listening device in their home.
      - rightos 9y ago
        You still need to worry about it being found in the pure software case - there's far higher odds of me seeing some suspicious traffic than a small custom bit of RF gear inside. If someone's taking the thing apart and sees your physical extra bits, odds are they're doing so to dump the firmware, just like this guy... if they're not doing that, they're not necessarily skilled enough to spot whatever modifications you may have planted either. It really depends on the target though I suppose. Of course, at the point you have physical access, all bets are off, they could swap chips on the board with identically labeled ones which serve different functions - replace the firmware and signing with their own, etc. An essentially undetectable hardware modification.
        kelnos 9y ago
6d6b73 9y ago
But this is something you could get from your "friends", family, or even an employer as a "gift". Usually people would not install spy gear in their home, even if it was given to them for free. But give them hacked Echo...

djsumdog 9y ago

Remember the Valut7 leaks contained an attack via USB on Samsung TVs. If you're targeted, an operative could infect your device in transit before it reaches you.

BoorishBears 9y ago
Why couldn't they just open your device and implant another device? It wouldn't even have to be conspicuous, maybe just replace a power supply board with something with an extra blob.
- dTal 9y ago
  There's a pretty huge difference between "dismantle unit" and "insert USB drive". The latter could be done on a lunch break.

gregmac 9y ago

> Physical attacks are, in my opinion, uninteresting, because you may as well just plant an old fashioned bug. The one benefit is the target is going to specifically locate this device in a location where it can hear them, and will relocate it appropriately if they move furniture, rooms, houses, etc. There's nothing physical to discover to tip them off. It's a listening device disguised as a listening device. No need to hide, even though it's in plain sight.

rightos 9y ago
But it'd be trivial for them to slip an extra bit of hardware, wire it to the existing mic and use that to do all the actions they wish. At the point where someone has physical access to the device the game is over. This is not an attack - its an immutable law, if someone else has unrestricted physical access to your device, it's not your device anymore.
- TeMPOraL 9y ago
  To be fair, planting a physical bug for longer-term surveillance is more difficult, because you need to worry about providing power to it, and about exfiltrating the data. A home assistant device, by its nature, has its owner ensuring both of those problems are solved for you.
  - kelnos 9y ago
    Right, and you also need to worry about it being found. There's nothing physical about this hack that would tip off the owner that they have an (unauthorized) listening device in their home.
    - rightos 9y ago
      You still need to worry about it being found in the pure software case - there's far higher odds of me seeing some suspicious traffic than a small custom bit of RF gear inside. If someone's taking the thing apart and sees your physical extra bits, odds are they're doing so to dump the firmware, just like this guy... if they're not doing that, they're not necessarily skilled enough to spot whatever modifications you may have planted either. It really depends on the target though I suppose. Of course, at the point you have physical access, all bets are off, they could swap chips on the board with identically labeled ones which serve different functions - replace the firmware and signing with their own, etc. An essentially undetectable hardware modification.
      - kelnos 9y ago

6d6b73 9y ago

But this is something you could get from your "friends", family, or even an employer as a "gift". Usually people would not install spy gear in their home, even if it was given to them for free. But give them hacked Echo...