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> People who came from my alma mater who majored in drama can't say the same. Don't worry, your salary gives them a way out too. And I'm not just saying that t

> People who came from my alma mater who majored in drama can't say the same. Don't worry, your salary gives them a way out too. And I'm not just saying that to be snarky, I think it's very likely what will end up happening: you'll end up paying for their poor choices one way or another. If it's not directly via taxes to pay off their student loans, it'll fund their retirement.

toomuchtodo 9y ago
> Don't worry, your salary gives them a way out too. And I'm not just saying that to be snarky, I think it's very likely what will end up happening: you'll end up paying for their poor choices one way or another. If it's not directly via taxes to pay off their student loans, it'll fund their retirement. Social Security benefits, without any other retirement savings, puts you right around poverty level. I would not consider that "retirement". Being a software engineer, who makes more than many other professions, doesn't automatically make you better for doing so. It just means you've optimized for a specific system. Congrats! The world still needs plenty of professions where the pay sucks and college is required (teachers, civil engineers, LPNs), that are arguably far more useful/noble/whatever you want to call real value. Consider that when you're sending your kid(s) off to school, crossing a bridge on your way to work, or are in the hospital being cared for.
- JonFish85 9y ago
  I'm not thinking just SS. Imagine in 30-40 years when SW engineers are retiring with their $5m 401k, but their neighbor is still barely making rent at their service-level job. I imagine there are many more people who have foregone retirement savings to pay off their massive college loans. Politically, the story would be something like this: why should you, a multi-millionaire SW engineer who hasn't paid taxes on your 401k not pay your fair share so that these other folks can spend some time with their families? After all, they were the victims of predatory lending! Close the loophole that allowed your opulent lifestyle! And remember, 401ks are a multi-trillion dollar market of untaxed dollars. Do you really think tomorrow's politician in 30-40 years is going to miss that, never mind their constituents?
  - toomuchtodo 9y ago
    Taxes are at historically low rates, and current governments have continually borrowed from the future to fund wars and tax cuts (outstanding US government obligations are in the trillions of dollars [1]). Of course taxes are going to go up. Plan accordingly. If you've put millions of dollars in a pre-tax retirement account, you're a fool if you think it's coming out at anything near current tax rates. You're banking on a political climate that cannot exist existing. That's your fault. And before blaming your average citizen, look how little anyone cares about what citizens want regarding net neutrality, a tax bill that is going to gut entitlements to support tax cuts for the top 1%, and so on. [1] https://treasurydirect.gov/NP/debt/current https://treasurydirect.gov/NP/debt/current (~20 trillion dollars in US gov outstanding debt obligations)
    - mywittyname 9y ago
      > Of course taxes are going to go up. Plan accordingly They already did. The GOP tax bill specifically targeted our demographic as a way to finance tax cuts for the wealthy and businesses. The GOP doesn't even deny it. Like it or not, we are the scapegoats for all the problems afflicting the poor. And it's not a stretch to believe the GOP is going to use popular support to extract every dime from us until we are homeless too.
      - toomuchtodo 9y ago
        Medicare cuts->Elderly dying off faster->Voter demographic change. Law of unintended consequences? Possibly. I can see the political winds shifting back hard over the next 3 years. Enough Puerto Ricans might have moved to Florida already to turn the state blue. Won't know until next elections.
        yardie 9y ago
        A lot of people Puerto Ricans are moving to traditionally blue Florida locations. SE Florida, Orlando, Tampa are the 3 most populous areas and all are strongly blue. Through gerrymandering they'll continue to get the same representation.
- tzahola 9y ago
  >The world still needs plenty of professions where the pay sucks and college is required Quite a self-contradictory statement. I mean, if the world was in such a dire need of said professions in such quantities, then their pay wouldn’t suck in the first place.
  - toomuchtodo 9y ago
    As if the world was a free market, and compensation was tied to value.
    - sol_remmy 9y ago
      Everything you look at was built by engineers, don't be so quickly to dismiss your own people
    - tzahola 9y ago
      >compensation was tied to value. It is the definition of value. Value is the compensation others are willing to give you in exchange for your goods/services.
      - deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
      - harrumph 9y ago
        >Value is the compensation others are willing to give you in exchange for your goods/services. Value includes far more than that. It includes all kinds of tangibles and intangibles, including compensation in exchange for absolutely nothing, such as in the case of nonworking shareholders being paid dividends, such dividends arising from the expropriation by owners of surplus value created by workers.
        tzahola 9y ago
        Nonworking shareholders are being paid for their investment risk. The company pays them for taking said risk instead of investing their capital somewhere else. Workers are paid wages for creating said surplus value using the company’s capital. If the shareholders’ capital were indeed not necessary for producing said surplus value, then why wouldn’t the workers create it by themselves, thus avoiding the expropriation?
- sol_remmy 9y ago
  > Congrats! The world still needs plenty of professions where the pay sucks and college is required (teachers, civil engineers, LPNs), that are arguably far more useful/noble/whatever you want to call real value. Shame on you for working in tech and not a more noble profession. I recommend that you resign from your job next week and become a high school math teacher. (I got a job in tech because I feel it adds the most value to the world so I'm not a hypocrite)
hycaria 9y ago
There's no other way in my opinion too. This is super stressful to me. I started working a few years ago, working my ass off with a full time job and part time one at night and I wonder if it's going to be of any worth someday or if I'm just working against my own later benefits by putting myself in the "too wealthy compared to my age class future average" fringe.

toomuchtodo 9y ago

> Don't worry, your salary gives them a way out too. And I'm not just saying that to be snarky, I think it's very likely what will end up happening: you'll end up paying for their poor choices one way or another. If it's not directly via taxes to pay off their student loans, it'll fund their retirement. Social Security benefits, without any other retirement savings, puts you right around poverty level. I would not consider that "retirement". Being a software engineer, who makes more than many other professions, doesn't automatically make you better for doing so. It just means you've optimized for a specific system. Congrats! The world still needs plenty of professions where the pay sucks and college is required (teachers, civil engineers, LPNs), that are arguably far more useful/noble/whatever you want to call real value. Consider that when you're sending your kid(s) off to school, crossing a bridge on your way to work, or are in the hospital being cared for.

JonFish85 9y ago
I'm not thinking just SS. Imagine in 30-40 years when SW engineers are retiring with their $5m 401k, but their neighbor is still barely making rent at their service-level job. I imagine there are many more people who have foregone retirement savings to pay off their massive college loans. Politically, the story would be something like this: why should you, a multi-millionaire SW engineer who hasn't paid taxes on your 401k not pay your fair share so that these other folks can spend some time with their families? After all, they were the victims of predatory lending! Close the loophole that allowed your opulent lifestyle! And remember, 401ks are a multi-trillion dollar market of untaxed dollars. Do you really think tomorrow's politician in 30-40 years is going to miss that, never mind their constituents?
- toomuchtodo 9y ago
  Taxes are at historically low rates, and current governments have continually borrowed from the future to fund wars and tax cuts (outstanding US government obligations are in the trillions of dollars [1]). Of course taxes are going to go up. Plan accordingly. If you've put millions of dollars in a pre-tax retirement account, you're a fool if you think it's coming out at anything near current tax rates. You're banking on a political climate that cannot exist existing. That's your fault. And before blaming your average citizen, look how little anyone cares about what citizens want regarding net neutrality, a tax bill that is going to gut entitlements to support tax cuts for the top 1%, and so on. [1] https://treasurydirect.gov/NP/debt/current https://treasurydirect.gov/NP/debt/current (~20 trillion dollars in US gov outstanding debt obligations)
  - mywittyname 9y ago
    > Of course taxes are going to go up. Plan accordingly They already did. The GOP tax bill specifically targeted our demographic as a way to finance tax cuts for the wealthy and businesses. The GOP doesn't even deny it. Like it or not, we are the scapegoats for all the problems afflicting the poor. And it's not a stretch to believe the GOP is going to use popular support to extract every dime from us until we are homeless too.
    - toomuchtodo 9y ago
      Medicare cuts->Elderly dying off faster->Voter demographic change. Law of unintended consequences? Possibly. I can see the political winds shifting back hard over the next 3 years. Enough Puerto Ricans might have moved to Florida already to turn the state blue. Won't know until next elections.
      - yardie 9y ago
        A lot of people Puerto Ricans are moving to traditionally blue Florida locations. SE Florida, Orlando, Tampa are the 3 most populous areas and all are strongly blue. Through gerrymandering they'll continue to get the same representation.
tzahola 9y ago
>The world still needs plenty of professions where the pay sucks and college is required Quite a self-contradictory statement. I mean, if the world was in such a dire need of said professions in such quantities, then their pay wouldn’t suck in the first place.
- toomuchtodo 9y ago
  As if the world was a free market, and compensation was tied to value.
  - sol_remmy 9y ago
    Everything you look at was built by engineers, don't be so quickly to dismiss your own people
  - tzahola 9y ago
    >compensation was tied to value. It is the definition of value. Value is the compensation others are willing to give you in exchange for your goods/services.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
    - harrumph 9y ago
      >Value is the compensation others are willing to give you in exchange for your goods/services. Value includes far more than that. It includes all kinds of tangibles and intangibles, including compensation in exchange for absolutely nothing, such as in the case of nonworking shareholders being paid dividends, such dividends arising from the expropriation by owners of surplus value created by workers.
      - tzahola 9y ago
        Nonworking shareholders are being paid for their investment risk. The company pays them for taking said risk instead of investing their capital somewhere else. Workers are paid wages for creating said surplus value using the company’s capital. If the shareholders’ capital were indeed not necessary for producing said surplus value, then why wouldn’t the workers create it by themselves, thus avoiding the expropriation?
sol_remmy 9y ago
> Congrats! The world still needs plenty of professions where the pay sucks and college is required (teachers, civil engineers, LPNs), that are arguably far more useful/noble/whatever you want to call real value. Shame on you for working in tech and not a more noble profession. I recommend that you resign from your job next week and become a high school math teacher. (I got a job in tech because I feel it adds the most value to the world so I'm not a hypocrite)

hycaria 9y ago

There's no other way in my opinion too. This is super stressful to me. I started working a few years ago, working my ass off with a full time job and part time one at night and I wonder if it's going to be of any worth someday or if I'm just working against my own later benefits by putting myself in the "too wealthy compared to my age class future average" fringe.