8 ms·

So Android GO is Android lite - a non bloat, cut down version of android that will run upon phones with specifications artificially obsoleted by previous versio

by Zenst 9y ago

So Android GO is Android lite - a non bloat, cut down version of android that will run upon phones with specifications artificially obsoleted by previous versions of android and yet will we now see it released for these `old` phones to make them usable again? Probably not. For me the first NExus 7 tablet was a prime example of what happens, released - ran fine, Android update and became darn near unusable, and then dropped. Android today needs 2 gig of ram to work, less and the cracks show. Tomorrow it will be more. This is always a repeated cycle in operating systems, they bloat up, then eventually have a cycle of removing the fat. Windows been thru this cycle many times. But calling it Android Go Edition, may sound cool as a marketing buzz, but utterly distracts from what it is as well as confusing given GoLang. More so as todays entry level phones where only a couple of years ago, premium specifications. Things move on and progress, but the amount of artificial obsoletion of mobile phones today by Android at a consumer level is frankly scary and avoidable. Two years from new to being forgotten is a recent change in mobile phones and without custommade roms, unavoidable as you effectively get forced to buy a new phone, just to stay secure. Why can't they have LTE editions for phones.

lmns 9y ago
>For me the first NExus 7 tablet was a prime example of what happens, released - ran fine, Android update and became darn near unusable, and then dropped. The Nexus 7 2012 had degrading NAND performance because Asus skimped on the chip quality. No Android update could've prevented this.
- tgb 9y ago
  And my 2013 version is still going strong - so it doesn't look like a software bloat problem to me.
  - Macha 9y ago
    My 2013 Nexus 7 only got replaced because of the battery expiring. I still liked it more than its replacement, the Nvidia shield (too heavy), and I'd like either of them way more than any android tablet still on the market.
  - zeveb 9y ago
    So's mine, and I dread the day it dies. I just want a 7" tablet running stock Android, that's all, and so far as I can tell it simply doesn't exist.
    - mistermann 9y ago
      Which is crazy, because it would sell like hotcakes. Hopefully some day some Chinese company will notice this huge pile of money left on the floor.
- jsight 9y ago
  I was thinking the same thing. I had another ASUS tablet from the same era that had similar issues. People would literally install the OS on the SD Card and run inverted storage to avoid the issue.
- zemanel 9y ago
  I have a Nexus 9 (16gb Wifi) and situation didn't improve at all (nexus 7/9 probably my worst product purchases)
pecg 9y ago
> But calling it Android Go Edition, may sound cool as a marketing buzz, but utterly distracts from what it is as well as confusing given GoLang This is exactly what I thought. I was expecting to read something about how they rewrote the apps with Go, and how they improved compilation times or any other thing.
smileysteve 9y ago
> the first NExus 7 tablet was a prime example of what happens The Nexus 7 first gen also had nand that ate itself; writing over the OS just amplified this effect. I was able to upgrade it really well once I switch to a file system that worked well with the nand. F2fs. For context; My nexus 7 now runs significantly better than my ipad mini of the same year.
- dancryer 9y ago
  How do you go about doing such a thing? My Nexus 9 could do with a new lease of life...
  - smileysteve 9y ago
    Example search and result "{device name} rom f2fs xda" https://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2678142 https://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2678142
  - farmerbb 9y ago
    The Nexus 9 shipped with f2fs out of the box.
andrepd 9y ago
>Why can't they have LTE editions for phones. Because planned obsolescence makes them money.
inlined 9y ago
> This is always a repeated cycle in operating systems, they bloat up, then eventually have a cycle of removing the fat. Windows been thru this cycle many times. I worked at Microsoft during Windows 7 & 8. There was a strict edict that minimum hardware requirements would not be increased and we were expected to improve performance on the same hardware. Have you actually seen windows get worse over the last ~9 years since vista or is this an impression that's just too hard to shake?
- runjake 9y ago
  It's probably an impression pushed by people who didn't regularly use those versions of Windows. W7 performed great and W8.1 (I skipped 8) only improved upon that speed and power efficiency. W8.1 with Classic Shell and before Metro spread throughout the system was my favorite OS-stays-out-of-the-way Windows.
- mrpippy 9y ago
  I generally agree that Windows has done a good job of getting faster on the same hardware (particularly boot time) over the last 10 years, but the hardware requirements have changed. Disabling desktop composition (the Desktop Window Manager/Aero) was a supported option on Windows 7, but is not an option for W8 and above. Windows 8 also requires NX and SSE2 support, which leaves out 2003/2004-era P4 and Athlon XPs.
  - TazeTSchnitzel 9y ago
    Even if Windows 10 still supported non-SSE2 CPUs, few software packages would. Most software is compiled to use SSE for floats now. Interestingly, disabling compositing doesn't mean increasing system requirements, because Windows 8 can do it in software. A GPU will improve your experience, however.
- Zenst 9y ago
  No, in fairness, since Vista they have made a very conscious effort and seem to of stuck with it.
- Feniks 9y ago
fro0116 9y ago
This is why I wish there was a ROM that's purely focused on bringing the latest stock Android to as many devices as possible. Right now it looks like the most popular cross device ROMs are projects like LineageOS and OmniROM, which are excellent ROMs with plenty of compelling features over stock Android, but the modifications they make to implement those extra features do incur a non-trivial cost in terms of resources needed to support newer versions of Android. I'd be completely willing to give up all of the extra features they offer if it means I can get a cross device ROM that tracks major Android updates much more closely (ideally weeks in delay instead of months). Maybe something like this already exists?
- nextos 9y ago
  https://postmarketos.org/ https://postmarketos.org/ will try to achieve this. But it will have a GNU/Linux userland, not an Android one.
- Jaruzel 9y ago
  I just want a real 'stock' android, that is the OS, the hardware drivers, a settings app, a phone app, and a SMS app. It works out of the box and then it's TOTALLY my choice what extra apps I install onto it. So many people call their custom ROMs 'stock' when they are anything but :(
  - whyagaindavid 9y ago
    If available flash just AOSP or lineages without GApps. Even nexus4 runs smooth. If you need browser add Firefox focus from fdroid.
- whyagaindavid 9y ago
  Which device? For example copperheados or any AOSP or lineageos without gapps runs fast even in nexus 4. Do not install PlayServices. I am on my 1generation moto G.
Zigurd 9y ago
It isn't Android that's slowing down your old phone, it's apps. Time-to-market trumps everything else, especially efficiency. So until an app category matures and incumbents face competition, efficiency is a nice-to-have. To be fair to your comment, often enough it's Google's own apps that bloat. But you can run a cut-down suite of apps in 512M. As for LTS editions, you can't have those because the bsps for the chips in those cheap phones eol sooner than the "long term."
erikpukinskis 9y ago
Some day soon someone will release an operating system that does very little and runs on very tiny conputers, but focuses on doing the right things. Doing things that are impossible due to the “layer cake” architecture and “pro” coding tools that are the norm in the software industry. It will look like a toy, and Hacker News will dismiss it, until they realize that teenagers are using it to write AIs and send functions via SMS and do all kinds of things that require no real computer power, just that the system was designed for such things from the start and the developer prioritized them over “running arbitrary android applications” and “multiprocess architecture” and “allowing web sites to run stupid code” and other things that are inconceivable to omit.

by Zenst 9y ago

lmns 9y ago

>For me the first NExus 7 tablet was a prime example of what happens, released - ran fine, Android update and became darn near unusable, and then dropped. The Nexus 7 2012 had degrading NAND performance because Asus skimped on the chip quality. No Android update could've prevented this.

tgb 9y ago
And my 2013 version is still going strong - so it doesn't look like a software bloat problem to me.
- Macha 9y ago
  My 2013 Nexus 7 only got replaced because of the battery expiring. I still liked it more than its replacement, the Nvidia shield (too heavy), and I'd like either of them way more than any android tablet still on the market.
- zeveb 9y ago
  So's mine, and I dread the day it dies. I just want a 7" tablet running stock Android, that's all, and so far as I can tell it simply doesn't exist.
  - mistermann 9y ago
    Which is crazy, because it would sell like hotcakes. Hopefully some day some Chinese company will notice this huge pile of money left on the floor.
jsight 9y ago
I was thinking the same thing. I had another ASUS tablet from the same era that had similar issues. People would literally install the OS on the SD Card and run inverted storage to avoid the issue.
zemanel 9y ago
I have a Nexus 9 (16gb Wifi) and situation didn't improve at all (nexus 7/9 probably my worst product purchases)

pecg 9y ago

> But calling it Android Go Edition, may sound cool as a marketing buzz, but utterly distracts from what it is as well as confusing given GoLang This is exactly what I thought. I was expecting to read something about how they rewrote the apps with Go, and how they improved compilation times or any other thing.

smileysteve 9y ago

> the first NExus 7 tablet was a prime example of what happens The Nexus 7 first gen also had nand that ate itself; writing over the OS just amplified this effect. I was able to upgrade it really well once I switch to a file system that worked well with the nand. F2fs. For context; My nexus 7 now runs significantly better than my ipad mini of the same year.

dancryer 9y ago
How do you go about doing such a thing? My Nexus 9 could do with a new lease of life...
- smileysteve 9y ago
  Example search and result "{device name} rom f2fs xda" https://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2678142 https://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2678142
- farmerbb 9y ago
  The Nexus 9 shipped with f2fs out of the box.

andrepd 9y ago

>Why can't they have LTE editions for phones. Because planned obsolescence makes them money.

inlined 9y ago

> This is always a repeated cycle in operating systems, they bloat up, then eventually have a cycle of removing the fat. Windows been thru this cycle many times. I worked at Microsoft during Windows 7 & 8. There was a strict edict that minimum hardware requirements would not be increased and we were expected to improve performance on the same hardware. Have you actually seen windows get worse over the last ~9 years since vista or is this an impression that's just too hard to shake?

runjake 9y ago
It's probably an impression pushed by people who didn't regularly use those versions of Windows. W7 performed great and W8.1 (I skipped 8) only improved upon that speed and power efficiency. W8.1 with Classic Shell and before Metro spread throughout the system was my favorite OS-stays-out-of-the-way Windows.
mrpippy 9y ago
I generally agree that Windows has done a good job of getting faster on the same hardware (particularly boot time) over the last 10 years, but the hardware requirements have changed. Disabling desktop composition (the Desktop Window Manager/Aero) was a supported option on Windows 7, but is not an option for W8 and above. Windows 8 also requires NX and SSE2 support, which leaves out 2003/2004-era P4 and Athlon XPs.
- TazeTSchnitzel 9y ago
  Even if Windows 10 still supported non-SSE2 CPUs, few software packages would. Most software is compiled to use SSE for floats now. Interestingly, disabling compositing doesn't mean increasing system requirements, because Windows 8 can do it in software. A GPU will improve your experience, however.
Zenst 9y ago
No, in fairness, since Vista they have made a very conscious effort and seem to of stuck with it.
Feniks 9y ago

fro0116 9y ago

This is why I wish there was a ROM that's purely focused on bringing the latest stock Android to as many devices as possible. Right now it looks like the most popular cross device ROMs are projects like LineageOS and OmniROM, which are excellent ROMs with plenty of compelling features over stock Android, but the modifications they make to implement those extra features do incur a non-trivial cost in terms of resources needed to support newer versions of Android. I'd be completely willing to give up all of the extra features they offer if it means I can get a cross device ROM that tracks major Android updates much more closely (ideally weeks in delay instead of months). Maybe something like this already exists?

nextos 9y ago
https://postmarketos.org/ https://postmarketos.org/ will try to achieve this. But it will have a GNU/Linux userland, not an Android one.
Jaruzel 9y ago
I just want a real 'stock' android, that is the OS, the hardware drivers, a settings app, a phone app, and a SMS app. It works out of the box and then it's TOTALLY my choice what extra apps I install onto it. So many people call their custom ROMs 'stock' when they are anything but :(
- whyagaindavid 9y ago
  If available flash just AOSP or lineages without GApps. Even nexus4 runs smooth. If you need browser add Firefox focus from fdroid.
whyagaindavid 9y ago
Which device? For example copperheados or any AOSP or lineageos without gapps runs fast even in nexus 4. Do not install PlayServices. I am on my 1generation moto G.

Zigurd 9y ago

It isn't Android that's slowing down your old phone, it's apps. Time-to-market trumps everything else, especially efficiency. So until an app category matures and incumbents face competition, efficiency is a nice-to-have. To be fair to your comment, often enough it's Google's own apps that bloat. But you can run a cut-down suite of apps in 512M. As for LTS editions, you can't have those because the bsps for the chips in those cheap phones eol sooner than the "long term."

erikpukinskis 9y ago

Some day soon someone will release an operating system that does very little and runs on very tiny conputers, but focuses on doing the right things. Doing things that are impossible due to the “layer cake” architecture and “pro” coding tools that are the norm in the software industry. It will look like a toy, and Hacker News will dismiss it, until they realize that teenagers are using it to write AIs and send functions via SMS and do all kinds of things that require no real computer power, just that the system was designed for such things from the start and the developer prioritized them over “running arbitrary android applications” and “multiprocess architecture” and “allowing web sites to run stupid code” and other things that are inconceivable to omit.