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It's hard to take health advice from a guy who considers martial arts to be a qualification in dispensing them. Especially when he trots out bullshit old wifes

It's hard to take health advice from a guy who considers martial arts to be a qualification in dispensing them. Especially when he trots out bullshit old wifes tales like caffeine leading to dehydration.

a00021 16y ago
>bullshit old wifes tales like caffeine leading to dehydration. [citation please] - I am genuinely curious about the current scientific consensus on that one, as IIRC I have heard the reverse claim in this talk: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM regarding Cola being stuffed with caffeine for both its normal effects and the diuretic side-effect (my memory could be failing me, of course). Cheers,
- rue 16y ago
  Coffee etc. is still mostly water. One unit of coffee/cola/tea, compared to the same unit of water will A) give you slightly less water up front and B) cause some loss of fluid due to diuretic effect but overall you still gain fluids. It is by far not the best source of hydration, of course. You are much better off drinking water or (preferrably unsweetened) fruit/vegetable juices - or even just eating said fruit or vegetables. Hypotonic sports drinks have their place too, but not when your exercise consists of walking up to the fridge.
  - jodrellblank 16y ago
    Unsweetened fruit juice is still high in sugar comparable to soda levels, and high in fructose which is particularly bad sugar to be high in. Sugar levels in juice compared to Coca-Cola: http://www.hookedonjuice.com/ http://www.hookedonjuice.com/ Dr Davis' Goodbye Fructose: http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com/2009/07/goodbye-fructose.html http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com/2009/07/goodbye-fructose.h... Dr Robert Lustig's what happens when we eat fructose and why it's bad video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM Aside from the hydration, you're probably better off with even sweetened coffee than unsweetened fruit juice.
Confusion 16y ago
Well, the advice is all based on experience. You could skip the 'background and qualifications' bit and it still makes sense. He might want to check with a GP to find out whether these are really problems that are common among programmers. When you've dealt with something yourself, it's easy to confirmation bias your way into thinking the ailments are common in your profession.
- zedshaw 16y ago
  I've been working professionally for a long time and have seen way too many programmers with these issues. I haven't met someone with all of them at once, but I have met plenty of people who have had one or more during their life. I've just been lucky to have had all of them, but not severe at all.
jrockway 16y ago
Indeed. Studies have shown that those that are used to caffeine don't get dehydrated from drinking caffeinated beverages. The NYT examine this here: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/04/health/nutrition/04real.html http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/04/health/nutrition/04real.ht...
- pradocchia 16y ago
  Really, though, you shouldn't need Zed, the NYT or anyone else to tell you whether coffee is dehydrating. You should be able to tell, for yourself, one way or the other. For myself, it's headaches and feeling "parched" (for lack of a better term), preceded by the usual coffee-smelling piss. I usually don't let it get that far, but once my head starts to ache I quickly switch over to green tea and/or water. Whether the latest journal reports caffeine is or isn't dehydrating may be interesting, but should mean fuck-all to your daily routine. Don't look for authorization in science. Look for it in careful examination of your own experience.
fmora 16y ago
You do know that coffee causes you to pee more often? Lookup it up in wikipedia. If you drink a lot of coffee those liquids are going to be sent straight to your blader. That is what causes dehydration. Same for caffeinated soda.
silentbicycle 16y ago
That part was him saying, "I used to be in really excellent shape, here is what has worked for me, and I can really notice when I get less exercise," not "don't take health advice from someone unless they're at least third dan.". And maybe caffeine doesn't dehydrate everyone, but coffee sure as hell makes me sweat more. (Coffee dehydrates me, but tea doesn't anywhere near as much.)
zedshaw 16y ago
It's not the coffee, it's the fact that many people drink everything _but_ water. Coffee's got a lot but you can't drink that much of it, so if that's all you drink, then you get dehydrated. People also drink too much soda which doesn't help, and people also just don't drink for long periods of time. If you get headaches then try drinking some water. Pretty simple. Also, man you're a giant douche. Did someone piss in your fucking coco puffs today little boy? Shit.
pjscott 16y ago
I'm curious: if someone other than Zed Shaw had written this, would you still have responded so contemptuously?

a00021 16y ago

>bullshit old wifes tales like caffeine leading to dehydration. [citation please] - I am genuinely curious about the current scientific consensus on that one, as IIRC I have heard the reverse claim in this talk: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM regarding Cola being stuffed with caffeine for both its normal effects and the diuretic side-effect (my memory could be failing me, of course). Cheers,

rue 16y ago
Coffee etc. is still mostly water. One unit of coffee/cola/tea, compared to the same unit of water will A) give you slightly less water up front and B) cause some loss of fluid due to diuretic effect but overall you still gain fluids. It is by far not the best source of hydration, of course. You are much better off drinking water or (preferrably unsweetened) fruit/vegetable juices - or even just eating said fruit or vegetables. Hypotonic sports drinks have their place too, but not when your exercise consists of walking up to the fridge.
- jodrellblank 16y ago
  Unsweetened fruit juice is still high in sugar comparable to soda levels, and high in fructose which is particularly bad sugar to be high in. Sugar levels in juice compared to Coca-Cola: http://www.hookedonjuice.com/ http://www.hookedonjuice.com/ Dr Davis' Goodbye Fructose: http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com/2009/07/goodbye-fructose.html http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com/2009/07/goodbye-fructose.h... Dr Robert Lustig's what happens when we eat fructose and why it's bad video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM Aside from the hydration, you're probably better off with even sweetened coffee than unsweetened fruit juice.

Confusion 16y ago

Well, the advice is all based on experience. You could skip the 'background and qualifications' bit and it still makes sense. He might want to check with a GP to find out whether these are really problems that are common among programmers. When you've dealt with something yourself, it's easy to confirmation bias your way into thinking the ailments are common in your profession.

zedshaw 16y ago
I've been working professionally for a long time and have seen way too many programmers with these issues. I haven't met someone with all of them at once, but I have met plenty of people who have had one or more during their life. I've just been lucky to have had all of them, but not severe at all.

jrockway 16y ago

Indeed. Studies have shown that those that are used to caffeine don't get dehydrated from drinking caffeinated beverages. The NYT examine this here: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/04/health/nutrition/04real.html http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/04/health/nutrition/04real.ht...

pradocchia 16y ago
Really, though, you shouldn't need Zed, the NYT or anyone else to tell you whether coffee is dehydrating. You should be able to tell, for yourself, one way or the other. For myself, it's headaches and feeling "parched" (for lack of a better term), preceded by the usual coffee-smelling piss. I usually don't let it get that far, but once my head starts to ache I quickly switch over to green tea and/or water. Whether the latest journal reports caffeine is or isn't dehydrating may be interesting, but should mean fuck-all to your daily routine. Don't look for authorization in science. Look for it in careful examination of your own experience.

fmora 16y ago

You do know that coffee causes you to pee more often? Lookup it up in wikipedia. If you drink a lot of coffee those liquids are going to be sent straight to your blader. That is what causes dehydration. Same for caffeinated soda.

silentbicycle 16y ago

That part was him saying, "I used to be in really excellent shape, here is what has worked for me, and I can really notice when I get less exercise," not "don't take health advice from someone unless they're at least third dan.". And maybe caffeine doesn't dehydrate everyone, but coffee sure as hell makes me sweat more. (Coffee dehydrates me, but tea doesn't anywhere near as much.)

zedshaw 16y ago

It's not the coffee, it's the fact that many people drink everything _but_ water. Coffee's got a lot but you can't drink that much of it, so if that's all you drink, then you get dehydrated. People also drink too much soda which doesn't help, and people also just don't drink for long periods of time. If you get headaches then try drinking some water. Pretty simple. Also, man you're a giant douche. Did someone piss in your fucking coco puffs today little boy? Shit.

pjscott 16y ago

I'm curious: if someone other than Zed Shaw had written this, would you still have responded so contemptuously?