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Fair enough, but consider the US predicament. We have the coastal areas of high education, high income, and high costs that mostly end in a wash if you exclude

Fair enough, but consider the US predicament. We have the coastal areas of high education, high income, and high costs that mostly end in a wash if you exclude the prestige of it all. Prices so high that people who do ordinary jobs can't even afford the place. We also have an incredible number of rural areas mired in meth and joblessness. The elites say "Invest more in education!" Where's the money when the tax base is jobless? Where are the students when the scholars packed their bags for greener pastures long ago? Where are the jobs when it only takes a few smart people to automate something for the entire world? I've been to factories where they only need two to satisfy the entirety of world demand, and there are only a handful of people there, and the second factory is just for redundancy... This is what "growth and innovation" have given us. Two unattractive monocultures. I like western europe better. To each his own. edit: If I were more awake, this probably could have been condensed into: Why speed up entropy?

ThomPete 9y ago
Because of the expontantial growth of technology. Every technolocial advancement open up the door for a new competitor to become a threat to an incumbent. Very few european companies become global players which you have to to survive. You have no choice.
saturdaysaint 9y ago
Why speed up entropy? -Quality of life for employees - there are plenty of economically stable regions across the midwest where you can get a 4 bedroom house in a great neighborhood for $200,000. -Political stability for the investor class. The tech industry effectively has 6 votes in the Senate right now, and they've realized what a vulnerability that is.
Tyrek 9y ago
Your entire argument is predicated upon the current American model of taxation/funding - i.e. that education spending is funded by individual states. There is an argument that this funding model is completely broken for the reasons outlined. It's not a death spiral if you don't want it to be.
- jstewartmobile 9y ago
  My entire argument is predicated on: A) current technology has drastically reduced the headcount required to get the important things done B) we papering over that with make-work. defense is mostly make-work for engineers/managers/clerks/tradesmen. farming is propped up with direct and indirect subsidies. US healthcare and higher ed are packed to the gills with admin staff. cranking out more professionals is just going to put more stress on the make-work systems. C) Fueling growth to bridge the gap between supply and demand is an ecological time-bomb.
dragonwriter 9y ago
> The elites say "Invest more in education!" No, the actual dominant elites don't; as they are behind the “starve the beast” movement that seeks to dismantle public services including education. > Where's the money when the tax base is jobless? The people actually saying “invest more in education” tend also to support greater federal funding of that function, especially for economically disadvantaged areas, and also to support shifting the federal tax burden more toward capital holders and/or profitable corporations, rather than the working class, so joblessness in the local economy of certain regions for which increased educational investment is sought isn't really a barrier to their preferred policy. Of course, they also tend to support other targeted shorter-payoff-window programs to support local economic development as well, also with out-of-region funding.
- jstewartmobile 9y ago
  Not talking Koch brother 0.0xxx1% elites. Just people I know who went to good schools and serve professional functions. Left wing ones lament that we haven't spent more on education. Right wing ones lament that people aren't taking advantage of the opportunities that have already been afforded. From my own perspective (automation, and this could be my thought-bubble?), we have a situation where we need fewer and fewer people to do most of the important things. Due to that leverage, these positions are relatively few, and demand a very high level of knowledge, intelligence, and responsibility. If the world only needs a full-time staff of 30 to do X, training 30,000 to do it is just wasted time and effort. The buzz currently seems to be around UBI to address this. Maybe the right way, maybe not. I have no crystal ball on that one. So many people pin their hopes on "growth", but is that what we really need? We are already devouring the earth just to keep people busy cranking out and devouring BS. Watch the cartoons with your kids one day. Behold all of the neon goo and plastic junk being pushed on them. Then watch FOX with the parents. Advertised medicines to fix health problems they earned at the advertised restaurants and leisure activities. Advertised financial products and scams to maintain enough revenue to afford the rest of it. So, as a prescription for making better-rounded individuals, education is fantastic. As a prescription for fixing "flyover country", I don't buy it.
ThomPete 9y ago
If you have some time. I wrote about the problem with European businesses. http://000fff.org/why-is-europe-failing-to-create-more-unicorns/ http://000fff.org/why-is-europe-failing-to-create-more-unico...
- jstewartmobile 9y ago
  I will read it. Thanks! edit: Just read it. Always refreshing to talk to someone who doesn't have all of the answers! Only thing I would add is to look at the glass as half-full. Western Europe's political systems seem to be in better shape than our own, their safety nets more generous, their public debt generally lower, and their inclination to start wars greatly reduced. If we have to sacrifice a few unicorns for that, seems like a fair trade to me.
  - ThomPete 9y ago
    Yeah but that is also it's Achilles heel. It's one of the reasons they can't make immigration work. Which contrary to popular belief it actually does quite well in the US despite it's many flaws. I grew up in Denmark and is used to the Scandinavian way of thinking all I am saying is that it has it's own issues and one of them is growth despite a few places.

ThomPete 9y ago

Because of the expontantial growth of technology. Every technolocial advancement open up the door for a new competitor to become a threat to an incumbent. Very few european companies become global players which you have to to survive. You have no choice.

saturdaysaint 9y ago

Why speed up entropy? -Quality of life for employees - there are plenty of economically stable regions across the midwest where you can get a 4 bedroom house in a great neighborhood for $200,000. -Political stability for the investor class. The tech industry effectively has 6 votes in the Senate right now, and they've realized what a vulnerability that is.

Tyrek 9y ago

Your entire argument is predicated upon the current American model of taxation/funding - i.e. that education spending is funded by individual states. There is an argument that this funding model is completely broken for the reasons outlined. It's not a death spiral if you don't want it to be.

jstewartmobile 9y ago
My entire argument is predicated on: A) current technology has drastically reduced the headcount required to get the important things done B) we papering over that with make-work. defense is mostly make-work for engineers/managers/clerks/tradesmen. farming is propped up with direct and indirect subsidies. US healthcare and higher ed are packed to the gills with admin staff. cranking out more professionals is just going to put more stress on the make-work systems. C) Fueling growth to bridge the gap between supply and demand is an ecological time-bomb.

dragonwriter 9y ago

> The elites say "Invest more in education!" No, the actual dominant elites don't; as they are behind the “starve the beast” movement that seeks to dismantle public services including education. > Where's the money when the tax base is jobless? The people actually saying “invest more in education” tend also to support greater federal funding of that function, especially for economically disadvantaged areas, and also to support shifting the federal tax burden more toward capital holders and/or profitable corporations, rather than the working class, so joblessness in the local economy of certain regions for which increased educational investment is sought isn't really a barrier to their preferred policy. Of course, they also tend to support other targeted shorter-payoff-window programs to support local economic development as well, also with out-of-region funding.

jstewartmobile 9y ago
Not talking Koch brother 0.0xxx1% elites. Just people I know who went to good schools and serve professional functions. Left wing ones lament that we haven't spent more on education. Right wing ones lament that people aren't taking advantage of the opportunities that have already been afforded. From my own perspective (automation, and this could be my thought-bubble?), we have a situation where we need fewer and fewer people to do most of the important things. Due to that leverage, these positions are relatively few, and demand a very high level of knowledge, intelligence, and responsibility. If the world only needs a full-time staff of 30 to do X, training 30,000 to do it is just wasted time and effort. The buzz currently seems to be around UBI to address this. Maybe the right way, maybe not. I have no crystal ball on that one. So many people pin their hopes on "growth", but is that what we really need? We are already devouring the earth just to keep people busy cranking out and devouring BS. Watch the cartoons with your kids one day. Behold all of the neon goo and plastic junk being pushed on them. Then watch FOX with the parents. Advertised medicines to fix health problems they earned at the advertised restaurants and leisure activities. Advertised financial products and scams to maintain enough revenue to afford the rest of it. So, as a prescription for making better-rounded individuals, education is fantastic. As a prescription for fixing "flyover country", I don't buy it.

ThomPete 9y ago

If you have some time. I wrote about the problem with European businesses. http://000fff.org/why-is-europe-failing-to-create-more-unicorns/ http://000fff.org/why-is-europe-failing-to-create-more-unico...

jstewartmobile 9y ago
I will read it. Thanks! edit: Just read it. Always refreshing to talk to someone who doesn't have all of the answers! Only thing I would add is to look at the glass as half-full. Western Europe's political systems seem to be in better shape than our own, their safety nets more generous, their public debt generally lower, and their inclination to start wars greatly reduced. If we have to sacrifice a few unicorns for that, seems like a fair trade to me.
- ThomPete 9y ago
  Yeah but that is also it's Achilles heel. It's one of the reasons they can't make immigration work. Which contrary to popular belief it actually does quite well in the US despite it's many flaws. I grew up in Denmark and is used to the Scandinavian way of thinking all I am saying is that it has it's own issues and one of them is growth despite a few places.