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I don't understand the argument. If Google's objective was to earn respect from many people, then why didn't they quit US or other Five Eyes countries after Sno

I don't understand the argument. If Google's objective was to earn respect from many people, then why didn't they quit US or other Five Eyes countries after Snowden? They changed their motto from do no evil to do the right thing. They quash ideas they don't like[1]. They collect WiFi info without permission[2]. They forcibly collect Android location info[3], and many more that people constantly forget (so do I). How does any of this earn respect from people? [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15145176 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15145176 [2] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2010/may/15/google-admits-storing-private-data https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2010/may/15/google-ad... [3] https://qz.com/1131515/google-collects-android-users-locations-even-when-location-services-are-disabled/ https://qz.com/1131515/google-collects-android-users-locatio...

bad_user 9y ago
Google is a US-based companies with subsidiaries in Europe. Quitting your country of origin doesn't make sense when the conditions haven't changed much since ~2000 when the company started. Such "why don't they..." questions represent a logical fallacy. In the US and Europe we can fight against censorship by lobbying, by getting the word out, etc. Yes, we have surveillance and are not winning every fight, but we still have rights, we still have freedom of speech and we still have the framework of the law to work in and politicians are still subject to the rules of democracy. In China on the other hand the whims of the ruling party reign supreme and before you open your mouth to say anything, I'll have you know that I'm a citizen of Romania, a former Communist country from the Warsaw Pact and I know communism ;-) And yes, Google has my respect for making a stand against Chinese censorship, regardless of your opinions about them.
- 4684499 9y ago
  The attitude of this reply may get me downvoted or flagged, but I still want to say it. Five eyes are not only in Europe. Quitting your country of origin makes sense if you are those companies that claim to be friend of justice who also want to gain your people's respect. And Google is a multinational enterprise who loves tax havens very much.[1] Oh yes, the lobbying. How is the net neutrality thing going by the way? Has NSA/CIA/FBI stopped what they've being doing? Last time I heard about FBI is Apple opposes putting backdoor in their products. Apparently they didn't stop, yet they are seeking for some kind of power expanding. I hope your sense of superiority didn't come from "we are better than the worst." Voters and politicians accuse Russia group for buying commercials. Companies like Google/Facebook are censoring terrorism videos/hate speech/fake news they (not people) don't like. Why would they do such thing if they are so confident with freedom of speech? Yes, the government won't do many things to you because of the definition of freedom of speech, just like what Aaron Swartz said[2], the power of censorship is holding by private sectors, their policies can be transparent or shady whenever they want, to gain support from general people. Being open is part of their PR, not because there's law to force them. [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/abigailtracy/2016/02/19/google-moved-billions-of-dollars-to-bermuda-to-avoid-taxes-again/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/abigailtracy/2016/02/19/google-... [2] https://www.wired.com/2013/04/aaron-swartz-interview/ https://www.wired.com/2013/04/aaron-swartz-interview/ edit: added links
  - bad_user 9y ago
    > Oh yes, the lobbying. How is the net neutrality thing going by the way? I'm glad you asked. Net neutrality is being debated in the open and there are good arguments against it that haven't been addressed. Given that I live in a European country where competition in this space is really high, with high speed Internet / 4G connections being available for cheap, with plenty pro-consumer EU regulations already in place, I'm actually against net neutrality. But the important thing for me though is that I can voice my opinions for or against it without fearing the government will rain down on me or my family. Last week and the week before that I was on the streets, participating in a public protest against our current government, because I can. Again, those who haven't lived in a totalitarian state and haven't had grandparents or parents persecuted by the state for thinking thoughts against the regime, those people don't know what they are talking about. Imagine living in fear of reprisals just for listening to the former Radio Free Europe, which is what communism gives you. > I hope your sense of superiority didn't come from "we are better than the worst." No, my sense of superiority comes from facts and history.
    - 4684499 9y ago
      Hi there, how do you think about this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15912965 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15912965

bad_user 9y ago

Google is a US-based companies with subsidiaries in Europe. Quitting your country of origin doesn't make sense when the conditions haven't changed much since ~2000 when the company started. Such "why don't they..." questions represent a logical fallacy. In the US and Europe we can fight against censorship by lobbying, by getting the word out, etc. Yes, we have surveillance and are not winning every fight, but we still have rights, we still have freedom of speech and we still have the framework of the law to work in and politicians are still subject to the rules of democracy. In China on the other hand the whims of the ruling party reign supreme and before you open your mouth to say anything, I'll have you know that I'm a citizen of Romania, a former Communist country from the Warsaw Pact and I know communism ;-) And yes, Google has my respect for making a stand against Chinese censorship, regardless of your opinions about them.

4684499 9y ago
The attitude of this reply may get me downvoted or flagged, but I still want to say it. Five eyes are not only in Europe. Quitting your country of origin makes sense if you are those companies that claim to be friend of justice who also want to gain your people's respect. And Google is a multinational enterprise who loves tax havens very much.[1] Oh yes, the lobbying. How is the net neutrality thing going by the way? Has NSA/CIA/FBI stopped what they've being doing? Last time I heard about FBI is Apple opposes putting backdoor in their products. Apparently they didn't stop, yet they are seeking for some kind of power expanding. I hope your sense of superiority didn't come from "we are better than the worst." Voters and politicians accuse Russia group for buying commercials. Companies like Google/Facebook are censoring terrorism videos/hate speech/fake news they (not people) don't like. Why would they do such thing if they are so confident with freedom of speech? Yes, the government won't do many things to you because of the definition of freedom of speech, just like what Aaron Swartz said[2], the power of censorship is holding by private sectors, their policies can be transparent or shady whenever they want, to gain support from general people. Being open is part of their PR, not because there's law to force them. [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/abigailtracy/2016/02/19/google-moved-billions-of-dollars-to-bermuda-to-avoid-taxes-again/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/abigailtracy/2016/02/19/google-... [2] https://www.wired.com/2013/04/aaron-swartz-interview/ https://www.wired.com/2013/04/aaron-swartz-interview/ edit: added links
- bad_user 9y ago
  > Oh yes, the lobbying. How is the net neutrality thing going by the way? I'm glad you asked. Net neutrality is being debated in the open and there are good arguments against it that haven't been addressed. Given that I live in a European country where competition in this space is really high, with high speed Internet / 4G connections being available for cheap, with plenty pro-consumer EU regulations already in place, I'm actually against net neutrality. But the important thing for me though is that I can voice my opinions for or against it without fearing the government will rain down on me or my family. Last week and the week before that I was on the streets, participating in a public protest against our current government, because I can. Again, those who haven't lived in a totalitarian state and haven't had grandparents or parents persecuted by the state for thinking thoughts against the regime, those people don't know what they are talking about. Imagine living in fear of reprisals just for listening to the former Radio Free Europe, which is what communism gives you. > I hope your sense of superiority didn't come from "we are better than the worst." No, my sense of superiority comes from facts and history.
  - 4684499 9y ago
    Hi there, how do you think about this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15912965 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15912965