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Yes, shame on Cook to kiss the ring, but Apple gets to bring its top notch service and product to Chinese users, set the fine example of what brand, quality, de

Yes, shame on Cook to kiss the ring, but Apple gets to bring its top notch service and product to Chinese users, set the fine example of what brand, quality, design and technology can achieve. What have Google achieved for Chinese users by quitting China 7 yrs ago? Lack of competition brought new height of profit to Baidu and continuous damage to users[1][2], I certainly don't blame Sergey Brin for that[3], but nothing for Chinese users to cheer on that either. Innocent age of Internet has died. I don't think there a right answer for Cook, but there're probably some worse answers, I'm grateful he did not take those and people who I care about can still buy iPhones in China. [1] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-baidu/baidu-promotes-fake-drug-sites-chinese-tv-station-idUSTRE66I1HK20100719 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-baidu/baidu-promotes-fake... [2] http://www.businessinsider.com/baidu-being-investigated-after-student-dies-taking-experimental-cancer-drug-found-on-the-site-2016-5 http://www.businessinsider.com/baidu-being-investigated-afte... [3] https://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/03/22/interview-sergey-brin-on-googles-china-gambit/ https://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/03/22/interview-sergey-b...

theWatcher37 9y ago
Say what you want, but the buck ultimately stops at the feet of the Chinese people who allow this gross injustice.
- bsder 9y ago
  Standing in front of a gun is a difficult sale to the man who isn't starving.
- tensitors 9y ago
  An injustice that lifts hundreds of millions out of poverty...
jeswin 9y ago
> What have Google achieved for Chinese users by quitting China 7 yrs ago? They earned the respect of many people, who are used to continually seeing corporations sell out their values for profits. Getting out of potentially the biggest market in the world because of incompatible values = courage. As opposed to removing a headphone jack from a phone.
- nikster 9y ago
  You could also say they have enabled the rise of Baidu and with it a Google clone that is completely under the control of the Chinese government. I do respect Google for pulling out - this was actually the last time Google actually really tried to "don't be evil". Since then, they've thrown that overboard. But that one time, they did it. The problem is that the outcome was worse than remaining there. That was a lack of wisdom on Google's part. Apple could pull out, lose Billions of dollars and a hundred million users, Chinese wouldn't be able to get their hands on iPhones, and Samsung, Meizu, Huawei, and so on would be having a field day selling their government-approved devices, which, in terms of privacy, are infinitely worse than iPhones. Apple is actually implementing some pretty serious privacy features, like end to end encryption in iMessage and so on.
  - jakecopp 9y ago
    I'm not sure about that that argument - in the same way you could argue below minimum wage work is okay because unemployment (or the alternative) is worse.
  - bad_user 9y ago
    You're presenting a false dichotomy. Google would have lost to Baidu regardless and don't think for a second this wasn't factored in their decision. The Chinese are known for degrading the online experience of western services in preference for local alternatives. This coupled with the fact that Baidu really is better for the Chinese market, just how Yandex has been better for the Russian market. > Apple is actually implementing some pretty serious privacy features, like end to end encryption in iMessage and so on. The end to end encryption in iMessage is shit because Apple is managing the encryption keys and if your adversary is the Chinese government you'll get fucked given Apple's newfound willingness to bend over.
    - cromwellian 9y ago
      Have you ever used Baidu? It's worse than Google even when searching for Chinese. Baidu did a few things well: it was good for finding pirated content and porn, but for actual research, it's horrible.
nikster 9y ago
Yes. Engagement always beats sanctions. As in, it's impossible to sanction China - China has no issues kicking out Google, Apple, and anyone else who doesn't want to follow the laws. Apple is wise enough to not suddenly engage in a battle for human rights. It's not the place of a company to change the laws. What they can do is remain there, implement strong encryption everywhere, protect their users. That's what they're doing.
- JetSpiegel 9y ago
  China will not allow strong encryption without a backdoor. If that happens the iPhone will be banned.
  - vageli 9y ago
    Maybe they'll just accidentally slip a bug in the code that allows passwordless root login.

theWatcher37 9y ago

Say what you want, but the buck ultimately stops at the feet of the Chinese people who allow this gross injustice.

bsder 9y ago
Standing in front of a gun is a difficult sale to the man who isn't starving.
tensitors 9y ago
An injustice that lifts hundreds of millions out of poverty...

jeswin 9y ago

> What have Google achieved for Chinese users by quitting China 7 yrs ago? They earned the respect of many people, who are used to continually seeing corporations sell out their values for profits. Getting out of potentially the biggest market in the world because of incompatible values = courage. As opposed to removing a headphone jack from a phone.

nikster 9y ago
You could also say they have enabled the rise of Baidu and with it a Google clone that is completely under the control of the Chinese government. I do respect Google for pulling out - this was actually the last time Google actually really tried to "don't be evil". Since then, they've thrown that overboard. But that one time, they did it. The problem is that the outcome was worse than remaining there. That was a lack of wisdom on Google's part. Apple could pull out, lose Billions of dollars and a hundred million users, Chinese wouldn't be able to get their hands on iPhones, and Samsung, Meizu, Huawei, and so on would be having a field day selling their government-approved devices, which, in terms of privacy, are infinitely worse than iPhones. Apple is actually implementing some pretty serious privacy features, like end to end encryption in iMessage and so on.
- jakecopp 9y ago
  I'm not sure about that that argument - in the same way you could argue below minimum wage work is okay because unemployment (or the alternative) is worse.
- bad_user 9y ago
  You're presenting a false dichotomy. Google would have lost to Baidu regardless and don't think for a second this wasn't factored in their decision. The Chinese are known for degrading the online experience of western services in preference for local alternatives. This coupled with the fact that Baidu really is better for the Chinese market, just how Yandex has been better for the Russian market. > Apple is actually implementing some pretty serious privacy features, like end to end encryption in iMessage and so on. The end to end encryption in iMessage is shit because Apple is managing the encryption keys and if your adversary is the Chinese government you'll get fucked given Apple's newfound willingness to bend over.
  - cromwellian 9y ago
    Have you ever used Baidu? It's worse than Google even when searching for Chinese. Baidu did a few things well: it was good for finding pirated content and porn, but for actual research, it's horrible.

nikster 9y ago

Yes. Engagement always beats sanctions. As in, it's impossible to sanction China - China has no issues kicking out Google, Apple, and anyone else who doesn't want to follow the laws. Apple is wise enough to not suddenly engage in a battle for human rights. It's not the place of a company to change the laws. What they can do is remain there, implement strong encryption everywhere, protect their users. That's what they're doing.

JetSpiegel 9y ago
China will not allow strong encryption without a backdoor. If that happens the iPhone will be banned.
- vageli 9y ago
  Maybe they'll just accidentally slip a bug in the code that allows passwordless root login.