6 ms·

Story time! A friend of a friend got an offer from CHG healthcare. She checked Glassdoor and found her pay to be at the lower end of the position. She countere

Story time! A friend of a friend got an offer from CHG healthcare. She checked Glassdoor and found her pay to be at the lower end of the position. She countered with a number near the higher end. Instead of negotiating, CHG Healthcare rescinded her offer. And that's how you perpetuate the wage gap!

syshum 9y ago
>>And that's how you perpetuate the wage gap! That is the only possible reason. Sexism. There could be no other explanation as to why her counter offer was rejected including but not limited to completely inaccurate data on Glass Door...
- kelukelugames 9y ago
  Hi folks, I don't think you should downvote syshum. Of course there are multiple possibilities. And getting an offer rescinded happens to men too. Heck, it happened to me. It's impossible to know if any individual case is due to sexism. But when there is a pattern established at CGH Healthcare then something is wrong.
- geofft 9y ago
  I've seen a similar thing happen before. I think at some point the burden of proof becomes on those claiming that it's not sexism to explain why it overwhelmingly happens only to one gender. (Obviously it doesn't happen 100% to one gender; there's bell curves and all that. But it happens more to one gender, which means that it's statistically implausible that the effect is uncorrelated with gender.)
  - user5994461 9y ago
    It happens to both gender. Many companies have arbitrary caps for positions, they will withdraw if you ask for a penny more than it.
    - s73ver_ 9y ago
      And then those companies go on to whine and moan that they can't find qualified candidates.
    - geofft 9y ago
      Why is it rational to withdraw the offer instead of saying "no, we will maintain our original offer"?
      - kelukelugames 9y ago
        Posturing? Pettiness? Punishment for daring to negotiate? Companies invent policies to the disadvantage of employees. Then again, I wouldn't want to work for someone who doesn't understand basic negotiations.
        geofft 9y ago
        I mean, what I was going for is that none of those are rational. None of those benefit the employer; they just indulge the base human instincts of the person giving the job offer. And once we've expanded our model to include base human instincts over rational economic behavior, sexism isn't an implausible explanation at all.
      - syshum 9y ago
        Maybe they had many many candidates wanting the position, depending on the counter they may have felt it was not worth the time to negotiate when they could just get one of the other qualified people for the offer on the table. Personally I hate negotiation, that is one the worst things about Human society IMO, offer me a fair wage, offer me a fair price, I do not understand people that want to haggle and negotiate over everything The more I advance into higher and higher roles, and the more salary negotiation becomes a thing more I long for the days where it was just a job, the company was Paying $xx/hr and has 100 openings, if you wanted to work for XX/hr great if not there are 300 other people waiting to do the job.
  - syshum 9y ago
    >> I think at some point the burden of proof becomes on those claiming that it's not sexism to explain why it overwhelmingly happens only to one gender. That is interesting... I am sure the world would be a much simpler place if people can just make claims with out having to offer any proof of those claims... Science for example would be much better if one could simply offer a hypothesis with no backing data, tests, or any research at all, just a wild thought enters your head and the burden in on others to disprove you.... I for one would love to see your source(s) and under lying data to where you have come to the conclusion that is "overwhelmingly happens only to one gender". I am an aware of any data sources on the level of rescinded job offers by sex in the market place. I would question how such data could even be collected...
    - geofft 9y ago
      > Science for example would be much better if one could simply offer a hypothesis with no backing data, tests, or any research at all, just a wild thought enters your head That's exactly how forming hypotheses work. You run into a couple of isolated, non-rigorously-acquired observations / anecdotes, you form a hypothesis, then you formulate a way to test the hypothesis and gather data. Until you've run the experiment, your hypothesis is just a hypothesis, not concluded fact. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:The_Scientific_Method_as_an_Ongoing_Process.svg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:The_Scientific_Method_as_... > * I would question how such data could even be collected...* Well, that's the problem, right? If it's genuinely hard to gather data that would rigorously demonstrate either A or not-A, on what basis do we believe either A or not-A? It's sound to say, "I have no belief." It's less sound to say "A is the default; the burden of proof is on those claiming not-A."
      - syshum 9y ago
        >>Well, that's the problem, right? If it's genuinely hard to gather data that would rigorously demonstrate either A or not-A, on what basis do we believe either A or not-A? It's sound to say, "I have no belief." It's less sound to say "A is the default; the burden of proof is on those claiming not-A." Let me guess, you are a religious person... That is the basic foundation of a religion, you can not disprove god there for god exists... Sorry... no >>That's exactly how forming hypotheses work. You run into a couple of isolated, non-rigorously-acquired observations / anecdotes, you form a hypothesis, then you formulate a way to test the hypothesis and gather data. Until you've run the experiment, your hypothesis is just a hypothesis, not concluded fact Well that is a complete bastardization of the scientific method.... You completely discount the "way to test the hypothesis and gather data." part of it. If you can not test and gather data to support your hypotheses then your hypotheses has no merit and should be dismissed completely by any rational thinker. You the individual will entertain your own hypotheses privately until you devise a method of testing and proving your hypotheses with rational thought to others. Not simply posting it out there and claiming anyone that can not disprove your hypotheses means your hypotheses is correct. Simply because it can not be disproven does not mean it is proven
- user5994461 9y ago
  Glassdoor is generally lower than the real salaries.

syshum 9y ago

>>And that's how you perpetuate the wage gap! That is the only possible reason. Sexism. There could be no other explanation as to why her counter offer was rejected including but not limited to completely inaccurate data on Glass Door...

kelukelugames 9y ago
Hi folks, I don't think you should downvote syshum. Of course there are multiple possibilities. And getting an offer rescinded happens to men too. Heck, it happened to me. It's impossible to know if any individual case is due to sexism. But when there is a pattern established at CGH Healthcare then something is wrong.
geofft 9y ago
I've seen a similar thing happen before. I think at some point the burden of proof becomes on those claiming that it's not sexism to explain why it overwhelmingly happens only to one gender. (Obviously it doesn't happen 100% to one gender; there's bell curves and all that. But it happens more to one gender, which means that it's statistically implausible that the effect is uncorrelated with gender.)
- user5994461 9y ago
  It happens to both gender. Many companies have arbitrary caps for positions, they will withdraw if you ask for a penny more than it.
  - s73ver_ 9y ago
    And then those companies go on to whine and moan that they can't find qualified candidates.
  - geofft 9y ago
    Why is it rational to withdraw the offer instead of saying "no, we will maintain our original offer"?
    - kelukelugames 9y ago
      Posturing? Pettiness? Punishment for daring to negotiate? Companies invent policies to the disadvantage of employees. Then again, I wouldn't want to work for someone who doesn't understand basic negotiations.
      - geofft 9y ago
        I mean, what I was going for is that none of those are rational. None of those benefit the employer; they just indulge the base human instincts of the person giving the job offer. And once we've expanded our model to include base human instincts over rational economic behavior, sexism isn't an implausible explanation at all.
    - syshum 9y ago
      Maybe they had many many candidates wanting the position, depending on the counter they may have felt it was not worth the time to negotiate when they could just get one of the other qualified people for the offer on the table. Personally I hate negotiation, that is one the worst things about Human society IMO, offer me a fair wage, offer me a fair price, I do not understand people that want to haggle and negotiate over everything The more I advance into higher and higher roles, and the more salary negotiation becomes a thing more I long for the days where it was just a job, the company was Paying $xx/hr and has 100 openings, if you wanted to work for XX/hr great if not there are 300 other people waiting to do the job.
- syshum 9y ago
  >> I think at some point the burden of proof becomes on those claiming that it's not sexism to explain why it overwhelmingly happens only to one gender. That is interesting... I am sure the world would be a much simpler place if people can just make claims with out having to offer any proof of those claims... Science for example would be much better if one could simply offer a hypothesis with no backing data, tests, or any research at all, just a wild thought enters your head and the burden in on others to disprove you.... I for one would love to see your source(s) and under lying data to where you have come to the conclusion that is "overwhelmingly happens only to one gender". I am an aware of any data sources on the level of rescinded job offers by sex in the market place. I would question how such data could even be collected...
  - geofft 9y ago
    > Science for example would be much better if one could simply offer a hypothesis with no backing data, tests, or any research at all, just a wild thought enters your head That's exactly how forming hypotheses work. You run into a couple of isolated, non-rigorously-acquired observations / anecdotes, you form a hypothesis, then you formulate a way to test the hypothesis and gather data. Until you've run the experiment, your hypothesis is just a hypothesis, not concluded fact. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:The_Scientific_Method_as_an_Ongoing_Process.svg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:The_Scientific_Method_as_... > * I would question how such data could even be collected...* Well, that's the problem, right? If it's genuinely hard to gather data that would rigorously demonstrate either A or not-A, on what basis do we believe either A or not-A? It's sound to say, "I have no belief." It's less sound to say "A is the default; the burden of proof is on those claiming not-A."
    - syshum 9y ago
      >>Well, that's the problem, right? If it's genuinely hard to gather data that would rigorously demonstrate either A or not-A, on what basis do we believe either A or not-A? It's sound to say, "I have no belief." It's less sound to say "A is the default; the burden of proof is on those claiming not-A." Let me guess, you are a religious person... That is the basic foundation of a religion, you can not disprove god there for god exists... Sorry... no >>That's exactly how forming hypotheses work. You run into a couple of isolated, non-rigorously-acquired observations / anecdotes, you form a hypothesis, then you formulate a way to test the hypothesis and gather data. Until you've run the experiment, your hypothesis is just a hypothesis, not concluded fact Well that is a complete bastardization of the scientific method.... You completely discount the "way to test the hypothesis and gather data." part of it. If you can not test and gather data to support your hypotheses then your hypotheses has no merit and should be dismissed completely by any rational thinker. You the individual will entertain your own hypotheses privately until you devise a method of testing and proving your hypotheses with rational thought to others. Not simply posting it out there and claiming anyone that can not disprove your hypotheses means your hypotheses is correct. Simply because it can not be disproven does not mean it is proven
user5994461 9y ago
Glassdoor is generally lower than the real salaries.