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I'm wondering what the best way to preserve old Mac installations is. I have some old Macintosh computers (one 68K & one PowerPC), and I'd like to get rid of t

by zeveb 9y ago

I'm wondering what the best way to preserve old Mac installations is. I have some old Macintosh computers (one 68K & one PowerPC), and I'd like to get rid of them, but only after I've backed them up and ensured that I can run them on a modern Linux system. SheepShaver is … a bit of a chore to get working (compared to VirtualBox). A quick Googling doesn't reveal any obvious walkthroughs …

kitsunesoba 9y ago
SheepShaver also can’t run everything. Any software that requires graphics acceleration won’t work among other shortcomings. This makes it unusable for a bunch of mid to late 90s Mac games, some of which aren’t available on any other platform. Classic Mac emulation could really use the same quantity and quality of attention that some of the other older platforms have received.
rjsw 9y ago
Why get rid of them ?
- zeveb 9y ago
  Because they're taking up space in my small home, and someday I may want to move. And eventually I'm sure the electronics will fail. Don't capacitors dry out eventually?
  - gerdesj 9y ago
    If the capacitors come from the right time then they may bulge and have failed already. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague . Replacing capacitors is generally quite easy and they are cheap. There are lots more things that can go wrong with old electronics and if the chips have lost their logic or whatever, you may find replacing those a bit more of a challenge or even to diagnose. That said, I simply put a new battery into a radio made around 1974 (Roberts) and it worked. I'd already read up on things like tin whiskers growing inside the transistors and all sorts of horrors but I didn't need to dust down my soldering iron. There are a lot of electronics hobby sites around with some very knowledgeable people lurking in them.
    - cr0sh 9y ago
      Tin whiskers were really only a thing with lead-free solder that was mandated in a stupid fashion by the EU (I won't go into specifics, but it really didn't make any sense once you started to look into why it was done, and the exemptions, etc). That solder used more tin in the alloy than lead-based solders did, and grew "whiskers" like crazy. Various methods and means were attempted to slow it down (the best way was complete conformal coating - but that made rework very difficult), but it took a while for manufacturers to understand what and how it was happening. I think since then, lead-free solder has a different formulation to make it not as bad, but it still happens. Technically, it can happen in virtually any tin-based alloy, but for some reason lead-based alloys with tin didn't grow them anywhere near as much or as fast. So - a 1974 radio is probably not going to be an issue. The computers, though, are a different thing. It will depend on when they were manufactured vs when the EU directive came around, and when the manufacturer switched over, etc. A lot of small variables come into play. Likely, though, there won't be any problems. I still have computers and electronics from the early 1990s and before that all work fine. The issues with capacitors should be looked at, but it was only a problem for a certain time period (late 1990s IIRC); prior to that you'd only have to worry about "reforming" capacitors if they were very, very old (like power supply caps from a computer of the early 1970s or such). If you had - say - an Altair from the 1970s - yeah, you wouldn't want to try just plugging it in, that could lead to a fire even if the caps looked ok.
      - SyneRyder 9y ago
        Is there any strategy I should use for turning on old electronics that haven't been turned on in a while (or links I should be looking at?) I still have a Commodore 64, Apple IIGS & a Mac LC630, but I haven't turned them on in a few years. For instance, maybe I should plug the devices into an APC UPS, so at least I know it's getting clean power? I'd be sad enough if starting them up caused them to stop working, but I hadn't considered the possibility of them catching fire....
        mrpippy 9y ago
        I would blow any dust out, and do a basic visual inspection of the logic board before you power it on. Macs of a certain age (like that LC630) have PRAM batteries which may have leaked/exploded, and capacitors which also may have leaked.
  - mrpippy 9y ago
    The PRAM batteries on old Macs tend to leak/explode, and can make a total mess of the logic board. If you can, pull the batteries out ASAP! The electrolytic capacitors on most late-80s and early 90s Macs also will fail (and probably already have), they leak electrolytic fluid onto the board which can often cause damage. I have several old Macs (SE/30, IIci, Q605, Color Classic) which I had to recap, and often had to fix eaten-away traces as well. The sooner you get them recapped, the better.
mrpippy 9y ago
Assuming you have the disk space, I would get Disk Copy onto your old Mac, and create a read-only image from the contents of your hard disk. (or create a blank image, and copy the contents of your hard disk onto it) Then copy the image to a modern computer, and you can transfer it into an emulator and mount the image. Ethernet to a netatalk or FTP server is usually the easiest way, depending on what kind of Mac it is. If you need advice, PM me or make a thread at 68kmla.org or reddit.com/r/vintageapple

by zeveb 9y ago

kitsunesoba 9y ago

SheepShaver also can’t run everything. Any software that requires graphics acceleration won’t work among other shortcomings. This makes it unusable for a bunch of mid to late 90s Mac games, some of which aren’t available on any other platform. Classic Mac emulation could really use the same quantity and quality of attention that some of the other older platforms have received.

rjsw 9y ago

Why get rid of them ?

zeveb 9y ago
Because they're taking up space in my small home, and someday I may want to move. And eventually I'm sure the electronics will fail. Don't capacitors dry out eventually?
- gerdesj 9y ago
  If the capacitors come from the right time then they may bulge and have failed already. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague . Replacing capacitors is generally quite easy and they are cheap. There are lots more things that can go wrong with old electronics and if the chips have lost their logic or whatever, you may find replacing those a bit more of a challenge or even to diagnose. That said, I simply put a new battery into a radio made around 1974 (Roberts) and it worked. I'd already read up on things like tin whiskers growing inside the transistors and all sorts of horrors but I didn't need to dust down my soldering iron. There are a lot of electronics hobby sites around with some very knowledgeable people lurking in them.
  - cr0sh 9y ago
    Tin whiskers were really only a thing with lead-free solder that was mandated in a stupid fashion by the EU (I won't go into specifics, but it really didn't make any sense once you started to look into why it was done, and the exemptions, etc). That solder used more tin in the alloy than lead-based solders did, and grew "whiskers" like crazy. Various methods and means were attempted to slow it down (the best way was complete conformal coating - but that made rework very difficult), but it took a while for manufacturers to understand what and how it was happening. I think since then, lead-free solder has a different formulation to make it not as bad, but it still happens. Technically, it can happen in virtually any tin-based alloy, but for some reason lead-based alloys with tin didn't grow them anywhere near as much or as fast. So - a 1974 radio is probably not going to be an issue. The computers, though, are a different thing. It will depend on when they were manufactured vs when the EU directive came around, and when the manufacturer switched over, etc. A lot of small variables come into play. Likely, though, there won't be any problems. I still have computers and electronics from the early 1990s and before that all work fine. The issues with capacitors should be looked at, but it was only a problem for a certain time period (late 1990s IIRC); prior to that you'd only have to worry about "reforming" capacitors if they were very, very old (like power supply caps from a computer of the early 1970s or such). If you had - say - an Altair from the 1970s - yeah, you wouldn't want to try just plugging it in, that could lead to a fire even if the caps looked ok.
    - SyneRyder 9y ago
      Is there any strategy I should use for turning on old electronics that haven't been turned on in a while (or links I should be looking at?) I still have a Commodore 64, Apple IIGS & a Mac LC630, but I haven't turned them on in a few years. For instance, maybe I should plug the devices into an APC UPS, so at least I know it's getting clean power? I'd be sad enough if starting them up caused them to stop working, but I hadn't considered the possibility of them catching fire....
      - mrpippy 9y ago
        I would blow any dust out, and do a basic visual inspection of the logic board before you power it on. Macs of a certain age (like that LC630) have PRAM batteries which may have leaked/exploded, and capacitors which also may have leaked.
- mrpippy 9y ago
  The PRAM batteries on old Macs tend to leak/explode, and can make a total mess of the logic board. If you can, pull the batteries out ASAP! The electrolytic capacitors on most late-80s and early 90s Macs also will fail (and probably already have), they leak electrolytic fluid onto the board which can often cause damage. I have several old Macs (SE/30, IIci, Q605, Color Classic) which I had to recap, and often had to fix eaten-away traces as well. The sooner you get them recapped, the better.

mrpippy 9y ago

Assuming you have the disk space, I would get Disk Copy onto your old Mac, and create a read-only image from the contents of your hard disk. (or create a blank image, and copy the contents of your hard disk onto it) Then copy the image to a modern computer, and you can transfer it into an emulator and mount the image. Ethernet to a netatalk or FTP server is usually the easiest way, depending on what kind of Mac it is. If you need advice, PM me or make a thread at 68kmla.org or reddit.com/r/vintageapple