5 ms·

This is to support sites like imgur, reddit that are essentially distributing GIFs as MP4s now. They didn't really determine the format that the community adopt

This is to support sites like imgur, reddit that are essentially distributing GIFs as MP4s now. They didn't really determine the format that the community adopted

finnn 9y ago
imgur converts to the most widely supported formats. This is not a community issue.
- bpicolo 9y ago
  Yeah, but mp4 saves on bandwidth and is buffered vs gifs. https://blog.imgur.com/2014/10/09/introducing-gifv/ https://blog.imgur.com/2014/10/09/introducing-gifv/ gifv is just rebranded mp4 more or less
  - always_good 9y ago
    Actually, .gifv is an html page with a <video> with both webm and mp4 sources.
    - bpicolo 9y ago
      Right, this let's them repurpose the same mp4 files and give iOS users a better experience
      - sli 9y ago
        Or at least try to. Imgur's mobile experience is lacking a lot.
        gsich 9y ago
        Desktop too. The absolute main feature of such a site is the absolute link to the picture. That is the most important thing you need after you uploaded an image. Yet imgur tries to hide it as much as possible, forcing you to use the "show url to image" stuff in browsers.
        always_good 9y ago
        It's been some time since that was the main feature of imgur. For example, imgur redirects hotlinked images to its embedded view in some cases. One of those cases is when they decide that your domain is using them as a CDN, which they forbid.
        gsich 9y ago
        And since then the main purpose of imgur is lost. I rather upload screenshots to my own site. I don't hope they go down the Imageshack road...
        Houshalter 9y ago
        You also can't save the video. At least not in firefox.
jessriedel 9y ago
I've never really understood this. I previously had figured that the popularity of GIFs on reddit had been about bandwidth and load times. In that past, video would be too slow for the rapid novelty stimulus reddit offered, while GIFs were lightening. But now every "GIF" people post is a just full movie, and it loads more slowly than YouTube or other websites that are smartly structured to handle video. Why do they do this?
- bpicolo 9y ago
  https://blog.imgur.com/2014/10/09/introducing-gifv/ https://blog.imgur.com/2014/10/09/introducing-gifv/ has some of the details. It definitely makes sense technically. It should in most cases reduce file size, and also allows you to stream content in buffered so you don't need to wait for the whole thing to load for it to play. (Though I believe streaming in gifs is teeeechnically possible? I feel like I saw a demo one time that made a clock by streaming in gif frames)
  - toomuchtodo 9y ago
    https://hookrace.net/blog/time.gif/ https://hookrace.net/blog/time.gif/ https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14996715 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14996715
  - jessriedel 9y ago
    Hey thanks, this is super useful! I still don't quite get it though. I understand that converting huge HD GIFs to a standard video format allows steaming and better compression, but why encourage people to upload it like this rather than just upload videos? The only explanation in the post is "the culture of the GIF now trumps the file format. With Project GIFV, Imgur is reimagining the looping GIF video with all the richness it deserves as a key piece of Internet culture." Is the idea just that people want soundless looping HD video, and they're accustomed to uploading GIFs, so Imgur is going to accommodate them by doing the conversions server-side? I guess this is an explanation, but it's a surprising one. For instance, it doesn't really fit well with the observation that people uploaded GIFs of content that was obviously native video and not connected to internet GIF culture, e.g., sports videos.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
DCKing 9y ago
To be quite fair, the only reason the community adopted these is because it's the only format that works across all browsers. If Safari and IE had supported free video codecs they would have very likely supported that. By the way, MP4 is a completely open standard (open does not equate 'free') and is free to use for videos that are also freely distributed. Of course there are also free and open source implementations of the codec. Being patent encumbered sucks but in principle there should be no practical limitation for gifs at least.
- user5994461 9y ago
  This makes no sense. mp4 is not a video format. mp4 is a container. It typically contains an audio stream and a video stream. The streams are encoded and the majority of the formats are patented with license fees.
  - cbhl 9y ago
    ISOBMFF is the new TIFF -- it can contain just about anything. Heck, Apple have started using it for images, too (that's what HEIF is).
  - ornitorrincos 9y ago
    while not really helping the base patent issues, cisco does offer binaries for the openh264 codec with all royalties paid for
aqme28 9y ago
There are other formats than MP4 though (like webm). Imgur supports those.
ckocagil 9y ago
No. This is because Apple is a part of MPEG-LA. Apple has never supported any effort to give the web an open, non-patent-encumbered video codec. Find the missing tech company: http://aomedia.org/about-us/ http://aomedia.org/about-us/

This is to support sites like imgur, reddit that are essentially distributing GIFs as MP4s now. They didn't really determine the format that the community adopted

finnn 9y ago

imgur converts to the most widely supported formats. This is not a community issue.

bpicolo 9y ago
Yeah, but mp4 saves on bandwidth and is buffered vs gifs. https://blog.imgur.com/2014/10/09/introducing-gifv/ https://blog.imgur.com/2014/10/09/introducing-gifv/ gifv is just rebranded mp4 more or less
- always_good 9y ago
  Actually, .gifv is an html page with a <video> with both webm and mp4 sources.
  - bpicolo 9y ago
    Right, this let's them repurpose the same mp4 files and give iOS users a better experience
    - sli 9y ago
      Or at least try to. Imgur's mobile experience is lacking a lot.
      - gsich 9y ago
        Desktop too. The absolute main feature of such a site is the absolute link to the picture. That is the most important thing you need after you uploaded an image. Yet imgur tries to hide it as much as possible, forcing you to use the "show url to image" stuff in browsers.
        always_good 9y ago
        It's been some time since that was the main feature of imgur. For example, imgur redirects hotlinked images to its embedded view in some cases. One of those cases is when they decide that your domain is using them as a CDN, which they forbid.
        gsich 9y ago
        And since then the main purpose of imgur is lost. I rather upload screenshots to my own site. I don't hope they go down the Imageshack road...
        Houshalter 9y ago
        You also can't save the video. At least not in firefox.

jessriedel 9y ago

I've never really understood this. I previously had figured that the popularity of GIFs on reddit had been about bandwidth and load times. In that past, video would be too slow for the rapid novelty stimulus reddit offered, while GIFs were lightening. But now every "GIF" people post is a just full movie, and it loads more slowly than YouTube or other websites that are smartly structured to handle video. Why do they do this?

bpicolo 9y ago
https://blog.imgur.com/2014/10/09/introducing-gifv/ https://blog.imgur.com/2014/10/09/introducing-gifv/ has some of the details. It definitely makes sense technically. It should in most cases reduce file size, and also allows you to stream content in buffered so you don't need to wait for the whole thing to load for it to play. (Though I believe streaming in gifs is teeeechnically possible? I feel like I saw a demo one time that made a clock by streaming in gif frames)
- toomuchtodo 9y ago
  https://hookrace.net/blog/time.gif/ https://hookrace.net/blog/time.gif/ https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14996715 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14996715
- jessriedel 9y ago
  Hey thanks, this is super useful! I still don't quite get it though. I understand that converting huge HD GIFs to a standard video format allows steaming and better compression, but why encourage people to upload it like this rather than just upload videos? The only explanation in the post is "the culture of the GIF now trumps the file format. With Project GIFV, Imgur is reimagining the looping GIF video with all the richness it deserves as a key piece of Internet culture." Is the idea just that people want soundless looping HD video, and they're accustomed to uploading GIFs, so Imgur is going to accommodate them by doing the conversions server-side? I guess this is an explanation, but it's a surprising one. For instance, it doesn't really fit well with the observation that people uploaded GIFs of content that was obviously native video and not connected to internet GIF culture, e.g., sports videos.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

DCKing 9y ago

To be quite fair, the only reason the community adopted these is because it's the only format that works across all browsers. If Safari and IE had supported free video codecs they would have very likely supported that. By the way, MP4 is a completely open standard (open does not equate 'free') and is free to use for videos that are also freely distributed. Of course there are also free and open source implementations of the codec. Being patent encumbered sucks but in principle there should be no practical limitation for gifs at least.

user5994461 9y ago
This makes no sense. mp4 is not a video format. mp4 is a container. It typically contains an audio stream and a video stream. The streams are encoded and the majority of the formats are patented with license fees.
- cbhl 9y ago
  ISOBMFF is the new TIFF -- it can contain just about anything. Heck, Apple have started using it for images, too (that's what HEIF is).
- ornitorrincos 9y ago
  while not really helping the base patent issues, cisco does offer binaries for the openh264 codec with all royalties paid for

aqme28 9y ago

There are other formats than MP4 though (like webm). Imgur supports those.

ckocagil 9y ago

No. This is because Apple is a part of MPEG-LA. Apple has never supported any effort to give the web an open, non-patent-encumbered video codec. Find the missing tech company: http://aomedia.org/about-us/ http://aomedia.org/about-us/