5 ms·

That argument can be extended to black people. Blacks statistically commit more crime than whites in America. It's still bad to say that black people are violen

That argument can be extended to black people. Blacks statistically commit more crime than whites in America. It's still bad to say that black people are violent, because it's a broad, presumptuous generalization that ignores the forces causing that trend. Along the same vein, it's bad to assume that an entire age group is bad just because some currently run the country.

Retric 9y ago
It's important to consider reality even if it seems unpopular. Blacks are convicted of more crimes in the US, that does not mean they commit more crimes. Just look at all the collage students not busted for drugs. We have a long history of intentionally creating systemic issues.
- TheAdamAndChe 9y ago
  Racial discrimination may play a role, but it does not explain the discrepancies in crime rates that we see: https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-black-americans-commit-crime https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-black-amer... I'm not saying that black people commit more crime because they're black. In fact, that's exactly the point I was trying to make: blaming black crime on their skin color is bad because it ignores the socioeconomic forces causing them to commit more crimes than other races with lower poverty levels. Just like how blaming boomers ignores the geopolitical and economic forces that gave them an advantage at the time. Not all black people commit crime, and not all boomers were privileged or lucky in life.
  - Retric 9y ago
    As long as we are discussing systemic issues I think we need to go deeper. The article lists someone being killed, yet the death is not part of the murder statistic. If you had said Blacks committed statistically more murders based on the current legal definition that's more defensible than crimes because total crime is a very different beast. We don't really keep track of the total number of crimes in any real way. But, that number is competently separate issue from various sub types of criminal acts. If you look annually their are ~17,000 reported murder and non-negligent manslaughter cases in the U.S. However, that excludes for example a significant subset of the ~32,000 traffic facilitates in the US that could be classified as Murder with slightly different laws. (Call it 1/4 from thin air and those murder statistics look different.) Importantly, they are generally both crimes, but while someone still ends up dead legally they are very different. Another issue is if a factory kills thousands from pollution is that one crime, thousands of murders, or millions of assaults based on different interpretations of the law. PS: Why are most serial killers in the US white? Is it because they actually kill more people, or because gang violence is not counted. PPS: I am not sure why so many people are down voting you, it's reasoned argument even if I don't exactly agree.
    - JoeAltmaier 9y ago
      ...and the systemic bias that when poor people (often Black) are the demographic involved, its a crime. But rich people (often not Black) running factories, not a crime. Agreed.
  - JoeAltmaier 9y ago
    I'd be careful with those statistics - they are post-systemic-bias i.e. those were the stats on people accused of committing crime. Because {profiling, racism, bias} we'll never know exactly how many murders were committed by whomever. Not saying the stats are worthless; just biased.
JoeAltmaier 9y ago
Right. We're a species of clannish behavior. Whoever fills a niche first, favors (consciously or unconsciously) those in their clan. Niches include law, government, medicine, entertainment, engineering. This is at root of most discussions about problems in these areas. And never gets mentioned, instead lots of intellectualizing about what should and shouldn't be.

Retric 9y ago

It's important to consider reality even if it seems unpopular. Blacks are convicted of more crimes in the US, that does not mean they commit more crimes. Just look at all the collage students not busted for drugs. We have a long history of intentionally creating systemic issues.

TheAdamAndChe 9y ago
Racial discrimination may play a role, but it does not explain the discrepancies in crime rates that we see: https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-black-americans-commit-crime https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-black-amer... I'm not saying that black people commit more crime because they're black. In fact, that's exactly the point I was trying to make: blaming black crime on their skin color is bad because it ignores the socioeconomic forces causing them to commit more crimes than other races with lower poverty levels. Just like how blaming boomers ignores the geopolitical and economic forces that gave them an advantage at the time. Not all black people commit crime, and not all boomers were privileged or lucky in life.
- Retric 9y ago
  As long as we are discussing systemic issues I think we need to go deeper. The article lists someone being killed, yet the death is not part of the murder statistic. If you had said Blacks committed statistically more murders based on the current legal definition that's more defensible than crimes because total crime is a very different beast. We don't really keep track of the total number of crimes in any real way. But, that number is competently separate issue from various sub types of criminal acts. If you look annually their are ~17,000 reported murder and non-negligent manslaughter cases in the U.S. However, that excludes for example a significant subset of the ~32,000 traffic facilitates in the US that could be classified as Murder with slightly different laws. (Call it 1/4 from thin air and those murder statistics look different.) Importantly, they are generally both crimes, but while someone still ends up dead legally they are very different. Another issue is if a factory kills thousands from pollution is that one crime, thousands of murders, or millions of assaults based on different interpretations of the law. PS: Why are most serial killers in the US white? Is it because they actually kill more people, or because gang violence is not counted. PPS: I am not sure why so many people are down voting you, it's reasoned argument even if I don't exactly agree.
  - JoeAltmaier 9y ago
    ...and the systemic bias that when poor people (often Black) are the demographic involved, its a crime. But rich people (often not Black) running factories, not a crime. Agreed.
- JoeAltmaier 9y ago
  I'd be careful with those statistics - they are post-systemic-bias i.e. those were the stats on people accused of committing crime. Because {profiling, racism, bias} we'll never know exactly how many murders were committed by whomever. Not saying the stats are worthless; just biased.

JoeAltmaier 9y ago

Right. We're a species of clannish behavior. Whoever fills a niche first, favors (consciously or unconsciously) those in their clan. Niches include law, government, medicine, entertainment, engineering. This is at root of most discussions about problems in these areas. And never gets mentioned, instead lots of intellectualizing about what should and shouldn't be.