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One of the many reasons we should remain within the EU. Time and time again EU law has stopped our government in its tracks or forced it to change direction on

One of the many reasons we should remain within the EU. Time and time again EU law has stopped our government in its tracks or forced it to change direction on overreaching or just plain stupid policy like this.

UncleSlacky 9y ago
Why do you think Theresa May is so keen to leave?
- mhw 9y ago
  Because if she said now what she was saying two years ago, she'd be out of a job.
- Chriky 9y ago
  She isn't "so keen" to leave, she campaigned for Remain.
clort 9y ago
Time and again though, people manage to paint things like this as foreign bureaucrats interfering in our sovereignty. So many people I know, it seems that if you tell them not to step in front of a bus they will shout "DON'T TELL ME WHAT TO DO" and do it anyway. I despair.
- OscarCunningham 9y ago
  I mean, yes. Both are true. The EU is both interfering undemocratically in the UK, _and_ making better decisions than our politicians. I noticed this during the referendum. A lot of the pro-remain arguments weren't to do with the abstract advantages of being in or out of the EU, but rather just that they preferred the current EU politicians to the UK ones.
  - SimonPStevens 9y ago
    I'm not sure it is entirely undemocratic. The EU is a institution of various parts. Not all parts can interfere in the same way. I'm not totally versed in the details, but I think in this story would be related to Britain making laws that break the European convention on human rights (echr) that Britain agreed to abide by in a fully democratic way following our system of parliament. The European court of justice (ecj) is then the high court responsible for ensuring that countries stick to the agreements they have agreed to stick to. Which we didn't. So they are enforcing that we do. Now I don't think that's undemocratic. We (as a country) democratically signed a convention, and then future governments failed to uphold that. The ecj stepping in is exactly right. Like I say, not an expert, but just how I understand it.
    - tomalpha 9y ago
      Somewhat ironically, the European Convention on Human Rights was very much a British supported thing and largely drafted by a British Member of Parliament: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Maxwell_Fyfe,_1st_Earl_of_Kilmuir https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Maxwell_Fyfe,_1st_Earl_o...
PeachPlum 9y ago
Really? ..... Really? I ... you want an external actor, over which you have no control, to have judicial power over your government, because right now the decisions go the way you want them to?
- tomelders 9y ago
  Last I checked, we get to vote for MEPs. So we do have control. And we have (had) representation on the European Council. And we had representation on the ECJ. The EU will still be there when we've left. And wether we're in the single market or not, we'll still have to play by their rules on most things. Brexit gives us less control, not more. And don't get me started on how the US and China are going to make us dance to their tune. And we certainly don't have any control over those two juggernauts.
  - 88 9y ago
    Turnout at EU Parliament elections in the UK is dismal, and many (over a quarter in 2014) turnout only to lodge protest votes for UKIP, the BNP, etc. The EU certainly suffers from a ‘democratic deficit’. It’s a highly complex bureaucracy and the average British person’s knowledge of its institutions, officials, powers, etc. is woeful.
    - 7952 9y ago
      It is really complicated and that is a serious problem, even if you are in favour of the EU. We already have a confusing mess of different levels responsible for different things. I wonder if it would have helped to rationalise that so people could have been less overwhelmed and be more open to the EU. Simplicity is a feature.
- DanBC 9y ago
  > to have judicial power over your government, because right now the decisions go the way you want them to? Very few[1] cases that go to ECHR from the UK are sucessful, because ECHR sees the UK as strongly protective of the human rights of its citizens. If the UK stops being protective of my human rights I absolutely want an external actor to have some control. Why wouldn't I? [1] https://fullfact.org/law/uks-record-human-rights-cases/ https://fullfact.org/law/uks-record-human-rights-cases/

UncleSlacky 9y ago

Why do you think Theresa May is so keen to leave?

mhw 9y ago
Because if she said now what she was saying two years ago, she'd be out of a job.
Chriky 9y ago
She isn't "so keen" to leave, she campaigned for Remain.

clort 9y ago

Time and again though, people manage to paint things like this as foreign bureaucrats interfering in our sovereignty. So many people I know, it seems that if you tell them not to step in front of a bus they will shout "DON'T TELL ME WHAT TO DO" and do it anyway. I despair.

OscarCunningham 9y ago
I mean, yes. Both are true. The EU is both interfering undemocratically in the UK, _and_ making better decisions than our politicians. I noticed this during the referendum. A lot of the pro-remain arguments weren't to do with the abstract advantages of being in or out of the EU, but rather just that they preferred the current EU politicians to the UK ones.
- SimonPStevens 9y ago
  I'm not sure it is entirely undemocratic. The EU is a institution of various parts. Not all parts can interfere in the same way. I'm not totally versed in the details, but I think in this story would be related to Britain making laws that break the European convention on human rights (echr) that Britain agreed to abide by in a fully democratic way following our system of parliament. The European court of justice (ecj) is then the high court responsible for ensuring that countries stick to the agreements they have agreed to stick to. Which we didn't. So they are enforcing that we do. Now I don't think that's undemocratic. We (as a country) democratically signed a convention, and then future governments failed to uphold that. The ecj stepping in is exactly right. Like I say, not an expert, but just how I understand it.
  - tomalpha 9y ago
    Somewhat ironically, the European Convention on Human Rights was very much a British supported thing and largely drafted by a British Member of Parliament: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Maxwell_Fyfe,_1st_Earl_of_Kilmuir https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Maxwell_Fyfe,_1st_Earl_o...

PeachPlum 9y ago

Really? ..... Really? I ... you want an external actor, over which you have no control, to have judicial power over your government, because right now the decisions go the way you want them to?

tomelders 9y ago
Last I checked, we get to vote for MEPs. So we do have control. And we have (had) representation on the European Council. And we had representation on the ECJ. The EU will still be there when we've left. And wether we're in the single market or not, we'll still have to play by their rules on most things. Brexit gives us less control, not more. And don't get me started on how the US and China are going to make us dance to their tune. And we certainly don't have any control over those two juggernauts.
- 88 9y ago
  Turnout at EU Parliament elections in the UK is dismal, and many (over a quarter in 2014) turnout only to lodge protest votes for UKIP, the BNP, etc. The EU certainly suffers from a ‘democratic deficit’. It’s a highly complex bureaucracy and the average British person’s knowledge of its institutions, officials, powers, etc. is woeful.
  - 7952 9y ago
    It is really complicated and that is a serious problem, even if you are in favour of the EU. We already have a confusing mess of different levels responsible for different things. I wonder if it would have helped to rationalise that so people could have been less overwhelmed and be more open to the EU. Simplicity is a feature.
DanBC 9y ago
> to have judicial power over your government, because right now the decisions go the way you want them to? Very few[1] cases that go to ECHR from the UK are sucessful, because ECHR sees the UK as strongly protective of the human rights of its citizens. If the UK stops being protective of my human rights I absolutely want an external actor to have some control. Why wouldn't I? [1] https://fullfact.org/law/uks-record-human-rights-cases/ https://fullfact.org/law/uks-record-human-rights-cases/