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Brazilian here too, and this is total BS. I've never seen anyone, even the most die-hard leftist (a species headed to extinction by the way) support Maduro pol

Brazilian here too, and this is total BS. I've never seen anyone, even the most die-hard leftist (a species headed to extinction by the way) support Maduro policies. Only some leftist parties giving oficial statements of support, but even than with the majority of their members, not supporting it, and going against the official statements. So i dont know in what reality you are living on.. but im sure is not the same as mine. HN has always been, a place of good and clear information, so please, lets keep it that way.

rodorgas 9y ago
Do you have any evidence that majority of left parties members doesn’t support Venezuelan government despite the officials statements? The truth is that every major left party in Brazil supports Maduro (PT, PSOL, PCB, PCdoB, PDT, …). Sure there are dissidents, but it’s a unpopular opinion on the left-wing. For example, take a look on this post from the leftist congressman Jean Wyllys criticizing Maduro[1]. The vast majority of comments are from leftists backlashing him or trying to argue about why Maduro measures were good and necessary. 1: https://facebook.com/jean.wyllys/posts/978205575560783 https://facebook.com/jean.wyllys/posts/978205575560783
- owebmaster 9y ago
  PSOL and Jean Willys don't support Maduro, but they aren't really socialists/left wing. They more like American liberals.
  - major505 9y ago
    https://brasil.elpais.com/brasil/2017/07/28/politica/1501262473_019811.html https://brasil.elpais.com/brasil/2017/07/28/politica/1501262... http://www.psol50.org.br/blog/2017/07/31/secretaria-de-relacoes-internacionais-do-psol-toda-solidariedade-a-revolucao-bolivariana/ http://www.psol50.org.br/blog/2017/07/31/secretaria-de-relac... https://www.reddit.com/r/brasil/comments/6qw61v/secretaria_de_rela%C3%A7%C3%B5es_internacionais_do_psol/ https://www.reddit.com/r/brasil/comments/6qw61v/secretaria_d... In the last couple years with the things going even more south in Venezuela, sure, there's been some dissidents in some of the leftist parties, but most of them still refuses to acknowledge that.
    - owebmaster 9y ago
      The second link gives me "page not found". The third one is a reddit that also points to a page that doesn't exist. The first one is an opinion article. I understand what you are saying, but as a brazilian left-wing myself, nobody respects PSOL, they are right-wing. And they don't support Venezuela. We do.
      - major505 9y ago
        I problably sow what was in cache. Well parties in Brazil are not exact know for clear ideology. More like a union of people just trying to get elected. Well, the only place I can see a clear set of ideas, and a litle of common goal its the PT ( workers party, if you are not from Brazil ). The strange thing is, Brazilians is in most part conservative people, mainly in small citys, likely because the catholic background, but even so are problably the most unrepresented people in politics.
        owebmaster 9y ago
        > The strange thing is, Brazilians is in most part conservative people, mainly in small citys, likely because the catholic background, but even so are problably the most unrepresented people in politics. I think the so called "centrão" is very conservative with the "bullets, bovine and bible party" (Bancada BBB). The majority of the right wing (led by PSDB) is liberal and the left wing (led by the aforementioned PT - Worker Party) is progressist with a touch of liberal in the southeast and a lot conservative in the northeast. Side note: nobody here is talking about the scandal happening in Honduras right now with the right wing government frauding the election and clashing with the population.
      - rodorgas 9y ago
        Archived version of the 404'ed: https://web.archive.org/web/20170801031138/http://www.psol50.org.br/blog/2017/07/31/secretaria-de-relacoes-internacionais-do-psol-toda-solidariedade-a-revolucao-bolivariana/ https://web.archive.org/web/20170801031138/http://www.psol50... Actually PSOL is unclear wether they endorse or reject Maduro after the National Constituent Assembly. For a Maduro supporter like you, it means that PSOL reject him. But the fact that there is discussion about it means that there are supporters within the party. The main argument was to show that there are people who support Maduro, which parent commenters doesn't believe.
major505 9y ago
I used to work with 2. One was a girl, used to be afiliated to the PCdoB (brazilian communist party), wich I wold never comment about politics around, because she was not a very controled person. Another was a guy I work with now. His parents were militnats of the Workers Party. Guy go visit Cuba every now and then, and sing the praises of Fidel Castro e Maduro every week or so... Its true, people in Brazil are now less leftist that they used to be. I think the last events, with all the corruption scnadals throwed a lot of people to a more moderated left, but you still find a lot o hardcore leftists, expecialy online.
- oscargrouch 9y ago
  Of course you will find them, and its clear by now that social networks give voice to the radical minorities that scream the most. But your comment make it look like, you cant even walk in Brazil, without finding a leftist in every corner, supporting Maduro policies. That was i were addressing about. I generally dont bother to comment this type of comments here on HN, but i thought that in your parent comment, you were overreacting. And mind you that this for many, its their first experience to this sort of information. And giving information here tend to be more scientifically focused, more based on samples, and carefully elaborated, what you say in this forum weights much more than in other places that are already used to hiperboles. Particularly i find good when different points of view can coexist in a democratic society.. communists, anarchists, conservatives, etc.. For me the problem is actually when there are too many of them (whatever the ideology is), believing in the same thing, because there is only one point of view.. no more dialog, or a dialetical relationship with the social status quo. The social network mirror that says we are becoming radicals and more polarized is wrong, i dont buy it, because its not really reproduced in other environments.
  - owebmaster 9y ago
    > But your comment make it look like, you cant even walk in Brazil, without finding a leftist in every corner, supporting Maduro policies. 90% of Brazilians don't really have a political position. Most of them just follow the media. And the national media goes from liberal left to liberal/conservative right all the time. But if you look at the 10% of brazilians that are politically engaged, 90% of it will be left wing. 10% of it will be libertarians/free market zealots.
major505 9y ago
Also, when you go in the academic enviroment, things are even more radical. Communism may have lost the economic batle, byt they sure won the cultural one.
- owebmaster 9y ago
  > Communism may have lost the economic batle, byt they sure won the cultural one. Did it? Communist China says otherwise.

rodorgas 9y ago

Do you have any evidence that majority of left parties members doesn’t support Venezuelan government despite the officials statements? The truth is that every major left party in Brazil supports Maduro (PT, PSOL, PCB, PCdoB, PDT, …). Sure there are dissidents, but it’s a unpopular opinion on the left-wing. For example, take a look on this post from the leftist congressman Jean Wyllys criticizing Maduro[1]. The vast majority of comments are from leftists backlashing him or trying to argue about why Maduro measures were good and necessary. 1: https://facebook.com/jean.wyllys/posts/978205575560783 https://facebook.com/jean.wyllys/posts/978205575560783

owebmaster 9y ago
PSOL and Jean Willys don't support Maduro, but they aren't really socialists/left wing. They more like American liberals.
- major505 9y ago
  https://brasil.elpais.com/brasil/2017/07/28/politica/1501262473_019811.html https://brasil.elpais.com/brasil/2017/07/28/politica/1501262... http://www.psol50.org.br/blog/2017/07/31/secretaria-de-relacoes-internacionais-do-psol-toda-solidariedade-a-revolucao-bolivariana/ http://www.psol50.org.br/blog/2017/07/31/secretaria-de-relac... https://www.reddit.com/r/brasil/comments/6qw61v/secretaria_de_rela%C3%A7%C3%B5es_internacionais_do_psol/ https://www.reddit.com/r/brasil/comments/6qw61v/secretaria_d... In the last couple years with the things going even more south in Venezuela, sure, there's been some dissidents in some of the leftist parties, but most of them still refuses to acknowledge that.
  - owebmaster 9y ago
    The second link gives me "page not found". The third one is a reddit that also points to a page that doesn't exist. The first one is an opinion article. I understand what you are saying, but as a brazilian left-wing myself, nobody respects PSOL, they are right-wing. And they don't support Venezuela. We do.
    - major505 9y ago
      I problably sow what was in cache. Well parties in Brazil are not exact know for clear ideology. More like a union of people just trying to get elected. Well, the only place I can see a clear set of ideas, and a litle of common goal its the PT ( workers party, if you are not from Brazil ). The strange thing is, Brazilians is in most part conservative people, mainly in small citys, likely because the catholic background, but even so are problably the most unrepresented people in politics.
      - owebmaster 9y ago
        > The strange thing is, Brazilians is in most part conservative people, mainly in small citys, likely because the catholic background, but even so are problably the most unrepresented people in politics. I think the so called "centrão" is very conservative with the "bullets, bovine and bible party" (Bancada BBB). The majority of the right wing (led by PSDB) is liberal and the left wing (led by the aforementioned PT - Worker Party) is progressist with a touch of liberal in the southeast and a lot conservative in the northeast. Side note: nobody here is talking about the scandal happening in Honduras right now with the right wing government frauding the election and clashing with the population.
    - rodorgas 9y ago
      Archived version of the 404'ed: https://web.archive.org/web/20170801031138/http://www.psol50.org.br/blog/2017/07/31/secretaria-de-relacoes-internacionais-do-psol-toda-solidariedade-a-revolucao-bolivariana/ https://web.archive.org/web/20170801031138/http://www.psol50... Actually PSOL is unclear wether they endorse or reject Maduro after the National Constituent Assembly. For a Maduro supporter like you, it means that PSOL reject him. But the fact that there is discussion about it means that there are supporters within the party. The main argument was to show that there are people who support Maduro, which parent commenters doesn't believe.

major505 9y ago

I used to work with 2. One was a girl, used to be afiliated to the PCdoB (brazilian communist party), wich I wold never comment about politics around, because she was not a very controled person. Another was a guy I work with now. His parents were militnats of the Workers Party. Guy go visit Cuba every now and then, and sing the praises of Fidel Castro e Maduro every week or so... Its true, people in Brazil are now less leftist that they used to be. I think the last events, with all the corruption scnadals throwed a lot of people to a more moderated left, but you still find a lot o hardcore leftists, expecialy online.

oscargrouch 9y ago
Of course you will find them, and its clear by now that social networks give voice to the radical minorities that scream the most. But your comment make it look like, you cant even walk in Brazil, without finding a leftist in every corner, supporting Maduro policies. That was i were addressing about. I generally dont bother to comment this type of comments here on HN, but i thought that in your parent comment, you were overreacting. And mind you that this for many, its their first experience to this sort of information. And giving information here tend to be more scientifically focused, more based on samples, and carefully elaborated, what you say in this forum weights much more than in other places that are already used to hiperboles. Particularly i find good when different points of view can coexist in a democratic society.. communists, anarchists, conservatives, etc.. For me the problem is actually when there are too many of them (whatever the ideology is), believing in the same thing, because there is only one point of view.. no more dialog, or a dialetical relationship with the social status quo. The social network mirror that says we are becoming radicals and more polarized is wrong, i dont buy it, because its not really reproduced in other environments.
- owebmaster 9y ago
  > But your comment make it look like, you cant even walk in Brazil, without finding a leftist in every corner, supporting Maduro policies. 90% of Brazilians don't really have a political position. Most of them just follow the media. And the national media goes from liberal left to liberal/conservative right all the time. But if you look at the 10% of brazilians that are politically engaged, 90% of it will be left wing. 10% of it will be libertarians/free market zealots.

major505 9y ago

Also, when you go in the academic enviroment, things are even more radical. Communism may have lost the economic batle, byt they sure won the cultural one.

owebmaster 9y ago
> Communism may have lost the economic batle, byt they sure won the cultural one. Did it? Communist China says otherwise.