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Ignorant dev here: why would I want to buy custom hardware when whatever off-the-shelf 2013ish netgear/linksys router I have can do port forwarding and max out

Ignorant dev here: why would I want to buy custom hardware when whatever off-the-shelf 2013ish netgear/linksys router I have can do port forwarding and max out my connection?

sitharus 9y ago
In my case (also a dev) because my 2015 Fritz!Box wasn't coping in a dense WiFi area (I can see over 200 other APs from my apartment). I was also running in to issues while really pushing my network, I couldn't get much over 100Mbps in a multi-client environment. A single client-to-client test could go much higher, but I was running in to CPU load issues when using multiple clients, possibly related to NAT rewriting. The main advantage is following the UNIX philosophy (albeit in a limited manner). The security gateway does NAT, VPN and firewalling, the APs do wireless and the switches switch packets. The CPUs can't get overloaded with other tasks. I don't think I'm anything like an average user though. I have over 20 devices on my home network continually and 100Mbit fibre to my home - though with my new gear I could increase that to 800Mbit.
zackelan 9y ago
For higher-end home connections (100mbit - gigabit) those older "Wi-Fi aisle at Best Buy" type of routers may or may not be able to saturate the connection. By separating the router and wireless APs you also get the ability to place multiple APs throughout your home for improved signal.
colemickens 9y ago
My Netgear WND4000 was updated to a build that makes it trivial to permanently lock yourself out of your router. In fact, it will nearly guaranteedly happen if you install their most recent firwmare update from a wireless client. My Mikrotik and Netgear both regularly shut down when I max out my Internet connection. I've had days where I've had to manually restart them numerous times trying to push large docker images to AWS. They both have spotty upnp implementations, which I need to work because there are game consoles in this apartment and upnp is necessary to get them online reliably. The Mikrotik's AP is pretty terrible. Doesn't even span a small 1BR in Seattle. Netgear's models are notorious for being vulnerable to stupid exploits even after numerous hacky patchy series. The most handwavey one: I find consumer routers just sorta need to be replaced every few years. I spent less doing the whole Unifi thing recently than I've spent on routers and such in the last 6 years. I don't think I'll be needing to replace this gear any time soon, and Unifi isn't really custom hardware at all. They non-rack mount stuff is relatively affordable if you're willing to make a moderate investment.
- colanderman 9y ago
  > The Mikrotik's AP is pretty terrible. Doesn't even span a small 1BR in Seattle. Which AP do you have? They sell many, which vary greatly in transmit power. Some (like the RB951G-2HnD) support up to the legal maximum of 30 dBm, but most (like the cAP lite) run at 20 dBm. The notorious RB951-2n (my first) ran at only 15 dBm, which is underpowered. The 20 dBm models are designed to be used in a multiple-AP scenario, e.g. one AP per room. They definitely won't span multiple rooms, by design. (This is for several reasons, both to properly segregate client devices onto separate APs, and to ensure TX power parity between the AP and devices, which often operate in the 17 dBm range.) I've run exclusively MT for years and never had one lock up under load. What model do you have and what sort of bandwidth are you talking about? I regularly run 200+ Mbps transfers to/from my NAS (across a wAP ac) and never have trouble. (I did once own a hAP ac that would – after an electrical event that destroyed some other equipment of mine – reboot occasionally.)
  - colemickens 9y ago
    I'm not sure which one I have and I'm not at home sadly. When I was having problems most was at my first apartment where I had symmetric gigabit.
ThatPlayer 9y ago
I have an okay homelab, and while I'm still looking into a custom router box, I did replace my router's built in wireless access point with a standalone dedicated Ubiquiti AP. Part of this was that my router only had wireless N, and like you say, it does do port forwarding and max out my connection fine. Also I do plan to add a second AP in the coming week, and Ubiquiti can handle them both easily enough.
y0ghur7_xxx 9y ago
> why would I want to buy custom hardware when whatever off-the-shelf 2013ish netgear/linksys router I have can do port forwarding and max out my connection? for me it was because - it could not max out my connection: it was maxing out a 70Mb/s on a 100Mb/s connection - those off the shelf routers do not support vlans, and I like so segment my home lan in stuff I trust, and stuff I don't trust.
iaml 9y ago
I wanted to share another killer feature of mikrotik routers - it's called metarouter and it's basically vm hypervisor on a router; you can run other routers or openwrt with basically anything you want, only limited by the router's hardware.
rodgerd 9y ago
I had two commodity APs (NetGear, TP-Link) barely providing enough coverage for my two story house. I replaced them with one UniFi AP that gets better coverage. It also gets regular software updates, something which most of the commodity kit don't.

Ignorant dev here: why would I want to buy custom hardware when whatever off-the-shelf 2013ish netgear/linksys router I have can do port forwarding and max out my connection?

sitharus 9y ago

In my case (also a dev) because my 2015 Fritz!Box wasn't coping in a dense WiFi area (I can see over 200 other APs from my apartment). I was also running in to issues while really pushing my network, I couldn't get much over 100Mbps in a multi-client environment. A single client-to-client test could go much higher, but I was running in to CPU load issues when using multiple clients, possibly related to NAT rewriting. The main advantage is following the UNIX philosophy (albeit in a limited manner). The security gateway does NAT, VPN and firewalling, the APs do wireless and the switches switch packets. The CPUs can't get overloaded with other tasks. I don't think I'm anything like an average user though. I have over 20 devices on my home network continually and 100Mbit fibre to my home - though with my new gear I could increase that to 800Mbit.

zackelan 9y ago

For higher-end home connections (100mbit - gigabit) those older "Wi-Fi aisle at Best Buy" type of routers may or may not be able to saturate the connection. By separating the router and wireless APs you also get the ability to place multiple APs throughout your home for improved signal.

colemickens 9y ago

My Netgear WND4000 was updated to a build that makes it trivial to permanently lock yourself out of your router. In fact, it will nearly guaranteedly happen if you install their most recent firwmare update from a wireless client. My Mikrotik and Netgear both regularly shut down when I max out my Internet connection. I've had days where I've had to manually restart them numerous times trying to push large docker images to AWS. They both have spotty upnp implementations, which I need to work because there are game consoles in this apartment and upnp is necessary to get them online reliably. The Mikrotik's AP is pretty terrible. Doesn't even span a small 1BR in Seattle. Netgear's models are notorious for being vulnerable to stupid exploits even after numerous hacky patchy series. The most handwavey one: I find consumer routers just sorta need to be replaced every few years. I spent less doing the whole Unifi thing recently than I've spent on routers and such in the last 6 years. I don't think I'll be needing to replace this gear any time soon, and Unifi isn't really custom hardware at all. They non-rack mount stuff is relatively affordable if you're willing to make a moderate investment.

colanderman 9y ago
> The Mikrotik's AP is pretty terrible. Doesn't even span a small 1BR in Seattle. Which AP do you have? They sell many, which vary greatly in transmit power. Some (like the RB951G-2HnD) support up to the legal maximum of 30 dBm, but most (like the cAP lite) run at 20 dBm. The notorious RB951-2n (my first) ran at only 15 dBm, which is underpowered. The 20 dBm models are designed to be used in a multiple-AP scenario, e.g. one AP per room. They definitely won't span multiple rooms, by design. (This is for several reasons, both to properly segregate client devices onto separate APs, and to ensure TX power parity between the AP and devices, which often operate in the 17 dBm range.) I've run exclusively MT for years and never had one lock up under load. What model do you have and what sort of bandwidth are you talking about? I regularly run 200+ Mbps transfers to/from my NAS (across a wAP ac) and never have trouble. (I did once own a hAP ac that would – after an electrical event that destroyed some other equipment of mine – reboot occasionally.)
- colemickens 9y ago
  I'm not sure which one I have and I'm not at home sadly. When I was having problems most was at my first apartment where I had symmetric gigabit.

ThatPlayer 9y ago

I have an okay homelab, and while I'm still looking into a custom router box, I did replace my router's built in wireless access point with a standalone dedicated Ubiquiti AP. Part of this was that my router only had wireless N, and like you say, it does do port forwarding and max out my connection fine. Also I do plan to add a second AP in the coming week, and Ubiquiti can handle them both easily enough.

y0ghur7_xxx 9y ago

> why would I want to buy custom hardware when whatever off-the-shelf 2013ish netgear/linksys router I have can do port forwarding and max out my connection? for me it was because - it could not max out my connection: it was maxing out a 70Mb/s on a 100Mb/s connection - those off the shelf routers do not support vlans, and I like so segment my home lan in stuff I trust, and stuff I don't trust.

iaml 9y ago

I wanted to share another killer feature of mikrotik routers - it's called metarouter and it's basically vm hypervisor on a router; you can run other routers or openwrt with basically anything you want, only limited by the router's hardware.

rodgerd 9y ago

I had two commodity APs (NetGear, TP-Link) barely providing enough coverage for my two story house. I replaced them with one UniFi AP that gets better coverage. It also gets regular software updates, something which most of the commodity kit don't.