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Or maybe its just the childless Americans (raised in a culture where spanking is widely accepted) that upvote the tough line on child discipline. I mean, your

Or maybe its just the childless Americans (raised in a culture where spanking is widely accepted) that upvote the tough line on child discipline. I mean, your original post was really about how to enforce rules, though you spent most of it conjuring up the image of publicly annoying children and then assuming their parents don't set any rules. Somewhat surprisingly you also describe how the same parents that supposedly don't set rules clearly trying (but failing) to enforce said non-existing rules... Just say what you mean: you make your children obey you by physical means.

beaconstudios 9y ago
I hope I'm misreading your implications when you say "you make your children obey you by physical means", because it sounds like you're accusing the parent commenter of child abuse. I'm sure that's not what you intended but I wanted to make it clear how that could come across.
- RegEx 9y ago
  Spanking isn't considered abuse in American culture. But you can make children obey physically without spanking. There is snatching from them, picking them up, etc. Those are physically asserting yourself over them to enforce a specific outcome. Not saying that's good or bad, just showing how the poster didn't imply abuse.
  - beaconstudios 9y ago
    The original commenter didn't mention physical discipline though - in fact, they explicitly stated that the parents in question wouldn't even raise their voice, which I took to mean that the solution was to verbally discipline misbehaving children rather than trying to explain the rules to them as you would an adult peer.
  - AstralStorm 9y ago
    Sometimes these other attempts do not work. (I had to use medieval methods exactly once for very good reason: electric sockets. Child safety and covers only go so far.)
hackinthebochs 9y ago
>Just say what you mean: you make your children obey you by physical means. You say this like its inherently a bad thing. Do you think children are abused by their nervous system that keeps them from biting their tongue and chewing on their jaw by causing them pain when they do so? Does this process cause them mental trauma? If not then why do we act like using a proportional amount of physical means to instill correct behavior in young children is inherently a bad thing? This "enlightened" parenting movement has really jumped the shark.
- hateduser2 9y ago
  Does it seem brutish or incivil to stoop to physical means to adjust your child? Maybe you should cultivate reason. I wouldn't have written this comment except your comment about the enlightened parenting movement jumping the shark seriously rubbed me the wrong way.. as if to say we should not try and do better, we should just do things the way theyve been done for most of time. Its such a backwards and harmful perspective. We see problems that we can fix, why wouldn't we? Does it threaten your parenting style? Will your kids not respect you if you withhold violence?
  - hackinthebochs 9y ago
    >We see problems that we can fix, why wouldn't we? Because we don't know its a problem. We have ideas that may or may not be sound. But we push them on the world with a fervor far beyond that which is justified by the facts, going so far as to criminalize non-abusive spanking in some places. >Does it seem brutish or incivil to stoop to physical means to adjust your child? These just aren't the types of judgments that a make sound basis for widespread forcible change of parenting styles.
    - hateduser2 9y ago
      >Because we don't know its a problem. We have ideas that may or may not be sound. But we push them on the world with a fervor far beyond that which is justified by the facts, going so far as to criminalize non-abusive spanking in some places. We should operate on our best understanding, no? You're right we don't know it, as we don't know anything. I suppose we should not act like we know it, as you say, and should not punish people too severely for such things. Thats not to say we shouldn't use our best judgement, which is that such parenting styles are perhaps "savage" (i hesitate to use that word in particular, but maybe you get the meaning). If verbal conflict is enough to be incredibly stressful, can you imagine physical conflict? Verbal conflict already gives me immense anxiety. >These just aren't the types of judgments that a make sound basis for widespread forcible change of parenting styles. Why not? And then what types of judgements would? THis sounds like a comment just intended to resist change, and the kinds of judgements I imagine you supporting are ones that dont cause change.
dang 9y ago
> Just say what you mean: you make your children obey you by physical means. This comment badly breaks the HN guideline which asks you to "respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize." I know it's not always easy, but please follow it when commenting here. Otherwise we just end up with misplaced outrage compounded.

beaconstudios 9y ago

I hope I'm misreading your implications when you say "you make your children obey you by physical means", because it sounds like you're accusing the parent commenter of child abuse. I'm sure that's not what you intended but I wanted to make it clear how that could come across.

RegEx 9y ago
Spanking isn't considered abuse in American culture. But you can make children obey physically without spanking. There is snatching from them, picking them up, etc. Those are physically asserting yourself over them to enforce a specific outcome. Not saying that's good or bad, just showing how the poster didn't imply abuse.
- beaconstudios 9y ago
  The original commenter didn't mention physical discipline though - in fact, they explicitly stated that the parents in question wouldn't even raise their voice, which I took to mean that the solution was to verbally discipline misbehaving children rather than trying to explain the rules to them as you would an adult peer.
- AstralStorm 9y ago
  Sometimes these other attempts do not work. (I had to use medieval methods exactly once for very good reason: electric sockets. Child safety and covers only go so far.)

hackinthebochs 9y ago

>Just say what you mean: you make your children obey you by physical means. You say this like its inherently a bad thing. Do you think children are abused by their nervous system that keeps them from biting their tongue and chewing on their jaw by causing them pain when they do so? Does this process cause them mental trauma? If not then why do we act like using a proportional amount of physical means to instill correct behavior in young children is inherently a bad thing? This "enlightened" parenting movement has really jumped the shark.

hateduser2 9y ago
Does it seem brutish or incivil to stoop to physical means to adjust your child? Maybe you should cultivate reason. I wouldn't have written this comment except your comment about the enlightened parenting movement jumping the shark seriously rubbed me the wrong way.. as if to say we should not try and do better, we should just do things the way theyve been done for most of time. Its such a backwards and harmful perspective. We see problems that we can fix, why wouldn't we? Does it threaten your parenting style? Will your kids not respect you if you withhold violence?
- hackinthebochs 9y ago
  >We see problems that we can fix, why wouldn't we? Because we don't know its a problem. We have ideas that may or may not be sound. But we push them on the world with a fervor far beyond that which is justified by the facts, going so far as to criminalize non-abusive spanking in some places. >Does it seem brutish or incivil to stoop to physical means to adjust your child? These just aren't the types of judgments that a make sound basis for widespread forcible change of parenting styles.
  - hateduser2 9y ago
    >Because we don't know its a problem. We have ideas that may or may not be sound. But we push them on the world with a fervor far beyond that which is justified by the facts, going so far as to criminalize non-abusive spanking in some places. We should operate on our best understanding, no? You're right we don't know it, as we don't know anything. I suppose we should not act like we know it, as you say, and should not punish people too severely for such things. Thats not to say we shouldn't use our best judgement, which is that such parenting styles are perhaps "savage" (i hesitate to use that word in particular, but maybe you get the meaning). If verbal conflict is enough to be incredibly stressful, can you imagine physical conflict? Verbal conflict already gives me immense anxiety. >These just aren't the types of judgments that a make sound basis for widespread forcible change of parenting styles. Why not? And then what types of judgements would? THis sounds like a comment just intended to resist change, and the kinds of judgements I imagine you supporting are ones that dont cause change.

dang 9y ago

> Just say what you mean: you make your children obey you by physical means. This comment badly breaks the HN guideline which asks you to "respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize." I know it's not always easy, but please follow it when commenting here. Otherwise we just end up with misplaced outrage compounded.