5 ms·

This is going to be interesting. They're not selling any copyrighted material; just the ability to download the material. I don't understand one thing, though:

This is going to be interesting. They're not selling any copyrighted material; just the ability to download the material. I don't understand one thing, though: why can't Disney make these codes single-use? Or limit them to a handful of uses? Or use some form of customer authentication (like a CC number, or phone number) to limit the access to these codes?

aibara 9y ago
Aren't the codes that came with the DVDs that Netflix is then reselling one-time use? So Netflix doesn't ever use them, just sells them (i.e. the ability to download the material) to someone once. Netflix only has many to sell because they bought so many DVDs. At least that was my understanding, but maybe I'm wrong. Edit: And by Netflix I mean Redbox, oops.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- applecrazy 9y ago
  It's not Netflix (the provider of digital movies and TV shows with a subscription). It's Redbox (a company which specializes in renting movies out using automated kiosks on a per-night basis).
  - luck_fenovo 9y ago
    > Netflix (the provider of digital movies and TV shows with a subscription) Netflix started 20 years ago by mailing rented movies to people, a business they still engage in with millions of customers. https://dvd.netflix.com https://dvd.netflix.com
    - StavrosK 9y ago
      Sure, but it's still not Netflix in the article.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
sdenton4 9y ago
Near the end of the article, it's mentioned that they ARE single use: RedBox isn't re-using them, just selling the code that they get out of each retail dvd that they buy, and then renting the physical DVD.
allenz 9y ago
I don't see any legal difference between the content and access to the content because circumventing copy protection is still a copyright violation. I am curious, however, whether this will be a copyright case or contract case.
- matt_wulfeck 9y ago
  There’s nothing being circumvented here. As another member pointed out you should check out how “first-sale” doctrine is used to decide these types of cases. Once Disney sells the DVD to Redbox they lose rights to dictate how further sales work. My take is that Redbox is totally in the clear, and if Disney has a beef with somebody it’s with the consumer. Usually suing the consumer is bad for business.
  - Spivak 9y ago
    It's a bit of an absurd position to take that it's legal to sell the codes but not legal to buy/use them.
    - matt_wulfeck 9y ago
      It wouldn’t be illegal to buy them either. Disney can make a policy not to honor the codes, but it’s consumers they’re fighting against.
StavrosK 9y ago
> They're not selling any copyrighted material; just the ability to download the material. They're selling codes that the DVD box said "aren't for sale". Whether that will hold up in court, I guess we'll see. I don't see why the owner of a thing gets to dictate what I do with the thing after I buy it from them. I bought the DVD with the code, it's mine to resell if I want, even if you didn't want me to when you sold it to me.
- rubyfan 9y ago
  The digital download is a license though. They can stipulate that the person with the code bought it with the DVD. Though practically I can’t see how they can enforce it.
  - StavrosK 9y ago
    They can deny service to the person if they didn't buy it with the DVD, but they can't sue the seller, no?
    - rubyfan 9y ago
      Yes they can deny service. It will be interesting if they stick it to the end consumer. They can sue all they want, but I can’t see how they win. The seller here hasn’t broken a law or violated license terms which they would be bound to. I don’t know what’s on the box, but I’d have a hard time believing when I buy a DVD from Walmart that I have entered into an agreement with Disney. When I go to use the code and download the movie, that’s when license terms and conditions and agreement between parties comes into play. But that should be between the holder of the code and Disney. Disney can say the holder must have come across the code by some way Disney likes but this to me is where enforcement gets tricky without implementing some kind of DVD verification or something.
- derefr 9y ago
  Obvious precedent: bulk food items, also usually marked "not for resale." I presume that that wording has no legal impact; I've definitely seen various convenience stores selling the "not for resale" food portions.
mcphage 9y ago
They are single use. But they're selling each code they get once.

aibara 9y ago

Aren't the codes that came with the DVDs that Netflix is then reselling one-time use? So Netflix doesn't ever use them, just sells them (i.e. the ability to download the material) to someone once. Netflix only has many to sell because they bought so many DVDs. At least that was my understanding, but maybe I'm wrong. Edit: And by Netflix I mean Redbox, oops.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
applecrazy 9y ago
It's not Netflix (the provider of digital movies and TV shows with a subscription). It's Redbox (a company which specializes in renting movies out using automated kiosks on a per-night basis).
- luck_fenovo 9y ago
  > Netflix (the provider of digital movies and TV shows with a subscription) Netflix started 20 years ago by mailing rented movies to people, a business they still engage in with millions of customers. https://dvd.netflix.com https://dvd.netflix.com
  - StavrosK 9y ago
    Sure, but it's still not Netflix in the article.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

sdenton4 9y ago

Near the end of the article, it's mentioned that they ARE single use: RedBox isn't re-using them, just selling the code that they get out of each retail dvd that they buy, and then renting the physical DVD.

allenz 9y ago

I don't see any legal difference between the content and access to the content because circumventing copy protection is still a copyright violation. I am curious, however, whether this will be a copyright case or contract case.

matt_wulfeck 9y ago
There’s nothing being circumvented here. As another member pointed out you should check out how “first-sale” doctrine is used to decide these types of cases. Once Disney sells the DVD to Redbox they lose rights to dictate how further sales work. My take is that Redbox is totally in the clear, and if Disney has a beef with somebody it’s with the consumer. Usually suing the consumer is bad for business.
- Spivak 9y ago
  It's a bit of an absurd position to take that it's legal to sell the codes but not legal to buy/use them.
  - matt_wulfeck 9y ago
    It wouldn’t be illegal to buy them either. Disney can make a policy not to honor the codes, but it’s consumers they’re fighting against.

StavrosK 9y ago

> They're not selling any copyrighted material; just the ability to download the material. They're selling codes that the DVD box said "aren't for sale". Whether that will hold up in court, I guess we'll see. I don't see why the owner of a thing gets to dictate what I do with the thing after I buy it from them. I bought the DVD with the code, it's mine to resell if I want, even if you didn't want me to when you sold it to me.

rubyfan 9y ago
The digital download is a license though. They can stipulate that the person with the code bought it with the DVD. Though practically I can’t see how they can enforce it.
- StavrosK 9y ago
  They can deny service to the person if they didn't buy it with the DVD, but they can't sue the seller, no?
  - rubyfan 9y ago
    Yes they can deny service. It will be interesting if they stick it to the end consumer. They can sue all they want, but I can’t see how they win. The seller here hasn’t broken a law or violated license terms which they would be bound to. I don’t know what’s on the box, but I’d have a hard time believing when I buy a DVD from Walmart that I have entered into an agreement with Disney. When I go to use the code and download the movie, that’s when license terms and conditions and agreement between parties comes into play. But that should be between the holder of the code and Disney. Disney can say the holder must have come across the code by some way Disney likes but this to me is where enforcement gets tricky without implementing some kind of DVD verification or something.
derefr 9y ago
Obvious precedent: bulk food items, also usually marked "not for resale." I presume that that wording has no legal impact; I've definitely seen various convenience stores selling the "not for resale" food portions.

mcphage 9y ago

They are single use. But they're selling each code they get once.