4 ms·

Surprising how positive the initial comments here are. Do you really believe any incidental collection that isn't specifically prohibited by law (which is to s

by ethbro 9y ago

Surprising how positive the initial comments here are. Do you really believe any incidental collection that isn't specifically prohibited by law (which is to say, most) doesn't end up in a database mined for unrelated reasons?

TheAdamAndChe 9y ago
IMO it almost definitely happens, but it's bad for my mental health if I stress over everything I have no control over. Political activism has failed, and our government is practically an oligarchy at this point. To me, it's like yelling at a tornado. I can yell all I'd like, but at the end of the day, that tornado will do its thing. All I can do is either hide or move out of Tornado Alley.
- SockPuppeteer 9y ago
  There is no need to stress about surveillance nor what else you cannot control. I like to cite the heat list (i) that utilizes artificial intelligence to determine who is most likely to be shot in a top 400 ranking system by their association with previous people who have been shot. Volunteers then reach out to these people and suggest ways to stay alive. I still enjoy knowing that I pay for my tracking chip (cellular phone), entertainment advertising supported delivery with tracking (television), a multi step filtration system with bi-monthly checks for clean water (5gallon fill up), and roll the dice with what is in the soil that grows the food I eat. If the ground water is not safe to drink, is the food safe to eat? i. https://www.aclu.org/blog/privacy-technology/chicago-police-heat-list-renews-old-fears-about-government-flagging-and https://www.aclu.org/blog/privacy-technology/chicago-police-...
meri_dian 9y ago
Do you really think that surveillance like this gives the government any more power than it already has over the common person? More than governments have always had over the common person? Let's concern ourselves with electing good governments, not the capabilities they develop to defend us from criminals.
- vageli 9y ago
  If it didn't give the government more power it would not be a pursued strategy. Reverse your comment: if it didn't give the government more power, then just why are they doing it?
  - meri_dian 9y ago
    They're doing it because knowledge is power. And power in a dangerous world is necessary to keep us all safe. We need to worry about keeping the government focused on protecting us from the right things, not destroying its ability to protect us.
    - mcny 9y ago
      > They're doing it because knowledge is power. And power in a dangerous world is necessary to keep us all safe. But the world is safer than ever before. It isn't a dangerous world. It is the safest world we know of... I think we are at least partially at fault here. We demand action everytime the is a tragedy but perhaps sometimes the best course of action is to stay the course with no change in plan. I don't know. I'm just making assumptions tbh.
      - meri_dian 9y ago
        It is safe relative to some lawless past, but crime still occurs. You as a law abiding citizen just don't come in contact with it very often. The people defending you and the nation from criminals do. Don't be naive in thinking that just because you can't see it, it isn't there.
        lovich 9y ago
        I wouldn't call the 80's some lawless past under anything but the most strict definition of past, and we're much safer now than we were then. The authorities are becoming more of a danger than any criminal as well. This is shown directly with assets stolen under civil forfeiture rules being greater than assets stolen by criminals in the US. Anecdotally, even in the bad neighborhoods I've lived in where I wouldn't go outside at night, the worst I would expect from a criminal is a mugging or beating. With cops I have to worry about that as well as being put in jail and possibly having my life ruined depending on what they decide to charge me with. I don't really see the cops or FBI as defending me or anyone else from criminals. At this point they are just one group of criminals fighting other groups of criminals for dominance

by ethbro 9y ago

TheAdamAndChe 9y ago

IMO it almost definitely happens, but it's bad for my mental health if I stress over everything I have no control over. Political activism has failed, and our government is practically an oligarchy at this point. To me, it's like yelling at a tornado. I can yell all I'd like, but at the end of the day, that tornado will do its thing. All I can do is either hide or move out of Tornado Alley.

SockPuppeteer 9y ago
There is no need to stress about surveillance nor what else you cannot control. I like to cite the heat list (i) that utilizes artificial intelligence to determine who is most likely to be shot in a top 400 ranking system by their association with previous people who have been shot. Volunteers then reach out to these people and suggest ways to stay alive. I still enjoy knowing that I pay for my tracking chip (cellular phone), entertainment advertising supported delivery with tracking (television), a multi step filtration system with bi-monthly checks for clean water (5gallon fill up), and roll the dice with what is in the soil that grows the food I eat. If the ground water is not safe to drink, is the food safe to eat? i. https://www.aclu.org/blog/privacy-technology/chicago-police-heat-list-renews-old-fears-about-government-flagging-and https://www.aclu.org/blog/privacy-technology/chicago-police-...

meri_dian 9y ago

Do you really think that surveillance like this gives the government any more power than it already has over the common person? More than governments have always had over the common person? Let's concern ourselves with electing good governments, not the capabilities they develop to defend us from criminals.

vageli 9y ago
If it didn't give the government more power it would not be a pursued strategy. Reverse your comment: if it didn't give the government more power, then just why are they doing it?
- meri_dian 9y ago
  They're doing it because knowledge is power. And power in a dangerous world is necessary to keep us all safe. We need to worry about keeping the government focused on protecting us from the right things, not destroying its ability to protect us.
  - mcny 9y ago
    > They're doing it because knowledge is power. And power in a dangerous world is necessary to keep us all safe. But the world is safer than ever before. It isn't a dangerous world. It is the safest world we know of... I think we are at least partially at fault here. We demand action everytime the is a tragedy but perhaps sometimes the best course of action is to stay the course with no change in plan. I don't know. I'm just making assumptions tbh.
    - meri_dian 9y ago
      It is safe relative to some lawless past, but crime still occurs. You as a law abiding citizen just don't come in contact with it very often. The people defending you and the nation from criminals do. Don't be naive in thinking that just because you can't see it, it isn't there.
      - lovich 9y ago
        I wouldn't call the 80's some lawless past under anything but the most strict definition of past, and we're much safer now than we were then. The authorities are becoming more of a danger than any criminal as well. This is shown directly with assets stolen under civil forfeiture rules being greater than assets stolen by criminals in the US. Anecdotally, even in the bad neighborhoods I've lived in where I wouldn't go outside at night, the worst I would expect from a criminal is a mugging or beating. With cops I have to worry about that as well as being put in jail and possibly having my life ruined depending on what they decide to charge me with. I don't really see the cops or FBI as defending me or anyone else from criminals. At this point they are just one group of criminals fighting other groups of criminals for dominance