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> "And now I'm one of those coastal elites, a term, you know, that people in Middle America use. And it feels like betrayal," he says. "But what I've learned in

by d4mi3n 9y ago

> "And now I'm one of those coastal elites, a term, you know, that people in Middle America use. And it feels like betrayal," he says. "But what I've learned in moving to the coast is there's real inequality. And the biggest driver of that inequality is the tax code. The biggest social welfare has been to the rich and powerful, giving them loopholes and abilities to keep money from the government and keep money from the rest of us." It saddened me to read that snippet. Growing up on the west coast, I was aware of some ideological/cultural differences between urban metros and the Middle America, but I was not aware of that sense of classism. A take-away I had from Trump's election was that there still is a lot of economic struggle in the interior of the US. Nobody seems to be interested in improving the situation, and very few of these communities have the means and/or the willingness to move towards greener pastures. Is there anything that can be done to improve the situation?

jimhefferon 9y ago
> Nobody seems to be interested in improving the situation Plnty of us are interested. But people with enough money to pay for their own media, and their own politicans and party, they are really not interested.
- SomeStupidPoint 9y ago
  I think it takes less than most of us imagine -- but more than most of us are capable of organizing. If you wanted to build complexes to stimulate the economy, you'd probably need on the order of... $100M in buildings, and another $100M in endowments for operating expenses/grants/risky loans. So 200M is a lot, but it's also only the retirement wealth of 100-200 upper-middle class families, of which there will be thousands per major metro (and perhaps a million or so across the US). I think it's mostly a logistics problem -- in those million families, there are probably 10,000 that are interested in resettling to the middle of the country and would be willing to move half of their wealth into local investments on a generational scale (while keeping the other half in say, the market). That means we could do 250-500 self-sustaining mixed-use complexes backed by endowments for operations costs, which is probably enough to target 50-100 towns. The question becomes the organizational aspects of those people finding each other, building trust (between each other and with the involved communities), and finding the appropriate legal instrument to manage the money on that scale. These are all much harder problems than finding money or media attention.
Consultant32452 9y ago
>Is there anything that can be done to improve the situation? Yes, but it's all the things that "coastal elites" don't want to hear. The first two topics of conversation would likely be about trade and immigration policy. But it's hard to talk about either without being shouted down as xenophobic or racist. It's worth noting that Obama ran on a platform to renegotiate NAFTA during his first primary.
- pjc50 9y ago
  What evidence is there that protectionism and further raising of the immigration barrier would actually solve any of these problems?
  - Consultant32452 9y ago
    Yes. The immigration barrier is simply supply and demand. Just as the H1Bs have been used to keep the wages of the American middle class down, so has the open floodgates of illegal immigration kept the wages of poor Americans down. With regards to protectionism I don't know what more evidence you could need aside from the changes to the US economy brought on by NAFTA, which were all predicted. It's been fine for the economy as a whole, but we're not talking about things like the GDP. We're talking about the economic well-being of the people who used to manufacture things in the US. Watch carefully, because that is the sleight of hand that unrelentingly responds to any talk of protectionism. They talk about sound economic theory about how protectionism impacts things like GDP. Not the topic at hand.
    - scarface74 9y ago
      There are only 85000 H1B Visas allowed each year. There are about 3.5 to 4 million developers in the US. If all of the H1B Visas allowed in the country were developers, it really couldn't depress wages that much. As far as reigning in illegal immigration, there have been reports all across the country that farmers are losing money because they can't find enough people at any price who are willing to do farm work since the crackdown.
notyourday 9y ago
> A take-away I had from Trump's election was that there still is a lot of economic struggle in the interior of the US. Nobody seems to be interested in improving the situation, and very few of these communities have the means and/or the willingness to move towards greener pastures. Is there anything that can be done to improve the situation? I work in a typical liberal as hell company in a very expensive city. The level of hate/class superiority towards the unwashed masses from my co-workers is absolutely mind blowing. It is casual hate that shows up everywhere, every day in a unrelated conversations. If one was to do s/<who they talk about>/gay|minority/g they would be terminated on the spot. It goes all the way up the corporate latter. All of them are card carrying progressives.
- azinman2 9y ago
  I live in SF, work in tech, and do not share this experience at all. Not sure what environment you’re in but that’s far from ubiquitous.
  - notyourday 9y ago
    I'm going to make an educated guess that you are not even noticing it because it is that common.
    - azinman2 9y ago
      My office is extremely political in discussion topics. It would be noticed and not looked favorably upon.
- scarface74 9y ago
  I didn't realize how outright prejudice I was when it came to the stereotypical Trump true believer until after this election. It just never crossed my mind. I'm African American grew up middle class but I saw and interacted with plenty of poorer minorities but never poorer Whites - I went to a predominantly white private school, but by definition if they were at private school, they weren't poor. Went into tech and only interacted with other white collar workers. Of course I don't agree with Trumps demonization of "other" but I do see how he easily tapped into their resentment. People don't seem to realize how many Trump voters in middle America voted for Obama in 2008 and 2012.
RickJWag 9y ago
Just read an article in Fortune mag. about a venture capitalist that's working to move more remote tech jobs to middle America. I hope he succeeds. The more we share jobs/experiences/wealth/etc. the more we'll understand each other.

by d4mi3n 9y ago

jimhefferon 9y ago

> Nobody seems to be interested in improving the situation Plnty of us are interested. But people with enough money to pay for their own media, and their own politicans and party, they are really not interested.

SomeStupidPoint 9y ago
I think it takes less than most of us imagine -- but more than most of us are capable of organizing. If you wanted to build complexes to stimulate the economy, you'd probably need on the order of... $100M in buildings, and another $100M in endowments for operating expenses/grants/risky loans. So 200M is a lot, but it's also only the retirement wealth of 100-200 upper-middle class families, of which there will be thousands per major metro (and perhaps a million or so across the US). I think it's mostly a logistics problem -- in those million families, there are probably 10,000 that are interested in resettling to the middle of the country and would be willing to move half of their wealth into local investments on a generational scale (while keeping the other half in say, the market). That means we could do 250-500 self-sustaining mixed-use complexes backed by endowments for operations costs, which is probably enough to target 50-100 towns. The question becomes the organizational aspects of those people finding each other, building trust (between each other and with the involved communities), and finding the appropriate legal instrument to manage the money on that scale. These are all much harder problems than finding money or media attention.

Consultant32452 9y ago

>Is there anything that can be done to improve the situation? Yes, but it's all the things that "coastal elites" don't want to hear. The first two topics of conversation would likely be about trade and immigration policy. But it's hard to talk about either without being shouted down as xenophobic or racist. It's worth noting that Obama ran on a platform to renegotiate NAFTA during his first primary.

pjc50 9y ago
What evidence is there that protectionism and further raising of the immigration barrier would actually solve any of these problems?
- Consultant32452 9y ago
  Yes. The immigration barrier is simply supply and demand. Just as the H1Bs have been used to keep the wages of the American middle class down, so has the open floodgates of illegal immigration kept the wages of poor Americans down. With regards to protectionism I don't know what more evidence you could need aside from the changes to the US economy brought on by NAFTA, which were all predicted. It's been fine for the economy as a whole, but we're not talking about things like the GDP. We're talking about the economic well-being of the people who used to manufacture things in the US. Watch carefully, because that is the sleight of hand that unrelentingly responds to any talk of protectionism. They talk about sound economic theory about how protectionism impacts things like GDP. Not the topic at hand.
  - scarface74 9y ago
    There are only 85000 H1B Visas allowed each year. There are about 3.5 to 4 million developers in the US. If all of the H1B Visas allowed in the country were developers, it really couldn't depress wages that much. As far as reigning in illegal immigration, there have been reports all across the country that farmers are losing money because they can't find enough people at any price who are willing to do farm work since the crackdown.

notyourday 9y ago

> A take-away I had from Trump's election was that there still is a lot of economic struggle in the interior of the US. Nobody seems to be interested in improving the situation, and very few of these communities have the means and/or the willingness to move towards greener pastures. Is there anything that can be done to improve the situation? I work in a typical liberal as hell company in a very expensive city. The level of hate/class superiority towards the unwashed masses from my co-workers is absolutely mind blowing. It is casual hate that shows up everywhere, every day in a unrelated conversations. If one was to do s/<who they talk about>/gay|minority/g they would be terminated on the spot. It goes all the way up the corporate latter. All of them are card carrying progressives.

azinman2 9y ago
I live in SF, work in tech, and do not share this experience at all. Not sure what environment you’re in but that’s far from ubiquitous.
- notyourday 9y ago
  I'm going to make an educated guess that you are not even noticing it because it is that common.
  - azinman2 9y ago
    My office is extremely political in discussion topics. It would be noticed and not looked favorably upon.
scarface74 9y ago
I didn't realize how outright prejudice I was when it came to the stereotypical Trump true believer until after this election. It just never crossed my mind. I'm African American grew up middle class but I saw and interacted with plenty of poorer minorities but never poorer Whites - I went to a predominantly white private school, but by definition if they were at private school, they weren't poor. Went into tech and only interacted with other white collar workers. Of course I don't agree with Trumps demonization of "other" but I do see how he easily tapped into their resentment. People don't seem to realize how many Trump voters in middle America voted for Obama in 2008 and 2012.

RickJWag 9y ago

Just read an article in Fortune mag. about a venture capitalist that's working to move more remote tech jobs to middle America. I hope he succeeds. The more we share jobs/experiences/wealth/etc. the more we'll understand each other.