5 ms·

I wonder how much of this movement towards work/life integration depends on the exuberance around startups that has existed for the past several years. In othe

I wonder how much of this movement towards work/life integration depends on the exuberance around startups that has existed for the past several years. In other words, is a big part of what made the whole thing attractive in the first place the promise that you were going to be rich one day because of you equity? If you take that away, and people are facing the prospect of merely working their entire life for a salary, will they still want to spend their life at work?

leggomylibro 9y ago
Do what you love, and you'll never work a day in your life. The whole thing is to get paid enough for it.
- PeachPlum 9y ago
  Or you'll fall out of love and go through a messy and painful divorce.
- mikestew 9y ago
  Do what you love, and you’ve turned an enjoyable hobby into work.
  - kdbg 9y ago
    I get that sentiment but Ive personally experienced both sides with two hobbies turned career. First was as a magician, I loved it as a hobby but as a profession is sucked the fun right out of it. Then I started working dping security assessments of software (hacking stuff) it was also a hobby now I'm paid to do it. Turning it into a profession did not suck the fun out. I'm not sure why one worked amd the other didn't but my experience is that turning a hobby into a profession is not always a bad experience.
fossuser 9y ago
I suspect it has more to do with trying to find community. The modern workforce is usually not working where they grew up, not interested in religion, and not getting married young. This seems to lead to most of your friends/community being derived from work. When that’s true what’s the point of separation? When you’re separate from your work community you’re alone. I don’t think this is necessarily a problem since if you’re working on something you think is important with people you like that can be a rewarding experience. There is a risk though that if you get fired or have to quit for some reason it’s a more serious crisis since now you’ve lost your community too.
- adam 9y ago
  I agree with you, but I find the whole vision to be pretty sad and fighting against what we intrinsically value as humans: deep connection. How does this work when some people have families and don't want to live and be friends with work people? Are they ostracized? What if I have hobbies, friends from HS or college, siblings, etc. and want to spend time with them instead of increasingly with my workmates. This sounds like it's going to increase cliquey-ness, not improve culture. There is already an old model out there that sort of already lives this way: IT or management consultants who travel every week. I did this for 10 years. You become great friends with your colleagues - until the project ends or some other break occurs. Then...nothing, unless keeping in touch on each other's birthdays on Facebook is enough for you. In retrospect it all felt very vapid and superficial - just people trying desperately to make connections to get them by, but not much "built to last."
  - chc 9y ago
    I think you have cause and effect backwards. It's not fighting against that. It's not like these people are opposed up deep connections any more than I'm opposed to having a million dollars in my bank account. They just don't happen to have any, so they take what they can get.
staticautomatic 9y ago
People need to find ways to exercise their autonomy and will to power, both of which are heavily restricted by modern society. Accordingly, people tend to find surrogate activities that society accepts, one of which is work.
shams93 9y ago
Yeah considering how few companies go public compared to the 90s this is largely a scam to normalize unpaid overtime. When you have to work 100 hours to get paid for 40 how is the economy supposed to grow? Back when most jobs were unionized overtime meant prosperity it was a way for him to get the extra means to go from being a bus driver to a professional investor. Without paid overtime you have a serious transfer of wealth as your real wages are in fact around 1/2 to even 1/3 of actual hours worked. The movement for extreme unpaid overtime is a big factor in social inequality when there is no meaningful equity to balance out the sacrifice.
HashThis 9y ago
I think it is the opposite. Millenials don't necessarily want the big company grind. They want something with less overhead that they can't control. They can create a startup, join one, or be a freelancer. This adds a more enjoyable work environment when going this path.

leggomylibro 9y ago

Do what you love, and you'll never work a day in your life. The whole thing is to get paid enough for it.

PeachPlum 9y ago
Or you'll fall out of love and go through a messy and painful divorce.
mikestew 9y ago
Do what you love, and you’ve turned an enjoyable hobby into work.
- kdbg 9y ago
  I get that sentiment but Ive personally experienced both sides with two hobbies turned career. First was as a magician, I loved it as a hobby but as a profession is sucked the fun right out of it. Then I started working dping security assessments of software (hacking stuff) it was also a hobby now I'm paid to do it. Turning it into a profession did not suck the fun out. I'm not sure why one worked amd the other didn't but my experience is that turning a hobby into a profession is not always a bad experience.

fossuser 9y ago

I suspect it has more to do with trying to find community. The modern workforce is usually not working where they grew up, not interested in religion, and not getting married young. This seems to lead to most of your friends/community being derived from work. When that’s true what’s the point of separation? When you’re separate from your work community you’re alone. I don’t think this is necessarily a problem since if you’re working on something you think is important with people you like that can be a rewarding experience. There is a risk though that if you get fired or have to quit for some reason it’s a more serious crisis since now you’ve lost your community too.

adam 9y ago
I agree with you, but I find the whole vision to be pretty sad and fighting against what we intrinsically value as humans: deep connection. How does this work when some people have families and don't want to live and be friends with work people? Are they ostracized? What if I have hobbies, friends from HS or college, siblings, etc. and want to spend time with them instead of increasingly with my workmates. This sounds like it's going to increase cliquey-ness, not improve culture. There is already an old model out there that sort of already lives this way: IT or management consultants who travel every week. I did this for 10 years. You become great friends with your colleagues - until the project ends or some other break occurs. Then...nothing, unless keeping in touch on each other's birthdays on Facebook is enough for you. In retrospect it all felt very vapid and superficial - just people trying desperately to make connections to get them by, but not much "built to last."
- chc 9y ago
  I think you have cause and effect backwards. It's not fighting against that. It's not like these people are opposed up deep connections any more than I'm opposed to having a million dollars in my bank account. They just don't happen to have any, so they take what they can get.

staticautomatic 9y ago

People need to find ways to exercise their autonomy and will to power, both of which are heavily restricted by modern society. Accordingly, people tend to find surrogate activities that society accepts, one of which is work.

shams93 9y ago

Yeah considering how few companies go public compared to the 90s this is largely a scam to normalize unpaid overtime. When you have to work 100 hours to get paid for 40 how is the economy supposed to grow? Back when most jobs were unionized overtime meant prosperity it was a way for him to get the extra means to go from being a bus driver to a professional investor. Without paid overtime you have a serious transfer of wealth as your real wages are in fact around 1/2 to even 1/3 of actual hours worked. The movement for extreme unpaid overtime is a big factor in social inequality when there is no meaningful equity to balance out the sacrifice.

HashThis 9y ago

I think it is the opposite. Millenials don't necessarily want the big company grind. They want something with less overhead that they can't control. They can create a startup, join one, or be a freelancer. This adds a more enjoyable work environment when going this path.