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I personally do not think weapons make people’s lives better, but if you would have the opinion that an armed defense force is a public good that’s a separate d

by pimmen 9y ago

I personally do not think weapons make people’s lives better, but if you would have the opinion that an armed defense force is a public good that’s a separate discussion. What you have to ask yourself is ”Is this illegal? Could I tell my grandchildren 30 years later what I did as an engineer and feel proud?” Don’t think I’m completely excluding the people who pay from all responsibility, however.

trhway 9y ago
>armed defense force do you mean the force managed by Department of Peace which buys only defensive bullets, bombs, missiles, etc. built by engineers possessing true integrity who would never build offensive bullets, bombs, missiles? Or do you think Leonardo was going to build only "defensive" cannons and bombs for the "saint" Duke? And weapons not necessarily should explode. Trade, political and economic actions can do a lot of damage and cause death and suffering. And now days one can do a lot of damage by actions in cyberspace.
- pimmen 9y ago
  Working for an arms contractor is something I would never do because I don't want to make things that kill people, however if someone else thinks that the military is a necessary institution for public safety those engineers can also proudly tell their grandchildren 30 years from now what they did and why it was ethically justified to do so without resorting to "I had a mortgage". When you just shrug and say "tragedy of the commons, I suppose" knowingly screwing people over in ways you wouldn't want to be treated yourself, then laugh all the way to the bank you're a part of the problem and the reason why some people feel the need of a defense force in the first place.
  - nkurz 9y ago
    How many layers of indirection do need the money to pass through before you would feel ethical? That is, and using your example of "arms contractors" as an example an unethical business, would you feel comfortable working for a company who has arms contractors as customers? Or a company who has customers who have arms contractors for customers? I ask this seriously. I personally often feel that there is no way to be a part of the modern economy without being complicit in an awful lot of evil. An issue that frequently bothers me is whether it's moral to make money by catering to the desires of those who made their money doing things that I would personally consider immoral. Then what about those who made their money doing business with those you find immoral? Is there any solution other than abandoning morality or avoiding gainful employment? Are there useful references to read about these issues?
    - pimmen 9y ago
      I don’t think there’s a simple answer to that question. I feel like two layers of inderiction is too little personally (i.e I don’t want to make things murderers use even though I’m technically not selling stuff to murderers or pull the trigger myself) but other people have other answers. But I, and the law, is of the opinion that organizations are responsible entities by themselves. When you join an organization and knowingly help facilitate its illegal activities it’s 0 indirections. The solution is to avoid organizations doing this shit by acting like any rational actor is expected to do in the economy; researching the alternatives. If you don’t like what you find, I could point you to the nearest office to apply for a business permit.
deleted 9y ago
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by pimmen 9y ago

trhway 9y ago

>armed defense force do you mean the force managed by Department of Peace which buys only defensive bullets, bombs, missiles, etc. built by engineers possessing true integrity who would never build offensive bullets, bombs, missiles? Or do you think Leonardo was going to build only "defensive" cannons and bombs for the "saint" Duke? And weapons not necessarily should explode. Trade, political and economic actions can do a lot of damage and cause death and suffering. And now days one can do a lot of damage by actions in cyberspace.

pimmen 9y ago
Working for an arms contractor is something I would never do because I don't want to make things that kill people, however if someone else thinks that the military is a necessary institution for public safety those engineers can also proudly tell their grandchildren 30 years from now what they did and why it was ethically justified to do so without resorting to "I had a mortgage". When you just shrug and say "tragedy of the commons, I suppose" knowingly screwing people over in ways you wouldn't want to be treated yourself, then laugh all the way to the bank you're a part of the problem and the reason why some people feel the need of a defense force in the first place.
- nkurz 9y ago
  How many layers of indirection do need the money to pass through before you would feel ethical? That is, and using your example of "arms contractors" as an example an unethical business, would you feel comfortable working for a company who has arms contractors as customers? Or a company who has customers who have arms contractors for customers? I ask this seriously. I personally often feel that there is no way to be a part of the modern economy without being complicit in an awful lot of evil. An issue that frequently bothers me is whether it's moral to make money by catering to the desires of those who made their money doing things that I would personally consider immoral. Then what about those who made their money doing business with those you find immoral? Is there any solution other than abandoning morality or avoiding gainful employment? Are there useful references to read about these issues?
  - pimmen 9y ago
    I don’t think there’s a simple answer to that question. I feel like two layers of inderiction is too little personally (i.e I don’t want to make things murderers use even though I’m technically not selling stuff to murderers or pull the trigger myself) but other people have other answers. But I, and the law, is of the opinion that organizations are responsible entities by themselves. When you join an organization and knowingly help facilitate its illegal activities it’s 0 indirections. The solution is to avoid organizations doing this shit by acting like any rational actor is expected to do in the economy; researching the alternatives. If you don’t like what you find, I could point you to the nearest office to apply for a business permit.

deleted 9y ago

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