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Man, sometimes I feel like the Kennedys are America's most hypocritical family. Edit: BTW, I go by wind farms all the time on my way through beautiful Cle Elum

Man, sometimes I feel like the Kennedys are America's most hypocritical family. Edit: BTW, I go by wind farms all the time on my way through beautiful Cle Elum Washington and they do not spoil the view in the slightest. They are not nearly as jarring as the ugly houses people are building in the upper Madison County in Montana where my family lives.

vinay427 9y ago
> Man, sometimes I feel like the Kennedys are America's most hypocritical family. I don't know what this means. Are you referring to actions taken by other Kennedy family members? If so, why should the actions of one's relatives fall exactly in line with one's own legacy, lest their family be deemed hypocritical? That seems like an awfully high bar that presupposes the family is a single moral and ethical unit.
- melling 9y ago
  How about when Ted Kennedy stopped Richard Nixon’s healthcare plan. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2012/06/22/stockman/bvg57mguQxOVpZMmB1Mg2N/amp.html https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/201...
  - icebraining 9y ago
    You mean, when Nixon introduced a much weaker healthcare bill right after Kennedy had managed to broker a bipartisan bill proposing a real reform? I don't see anything hypocritical about refusing to support a bill designed to keep the current broken system running and squash actual reform. At least, that's how it looks to me as a complete outsider.
    - melling 9y ago
      well, that’s not what the article says that I posted: “Kennedy said later that walking away from that deal was one of the biggest mistakes of his life.” “Over time, Kennedy realized his own plan couldn’t succeed. Opposition from the insurance companies was too great. So Kennedy dispatched his staffers to meet secretly with Nixon’s people to broker a compromise. Kennedy came close to backing Nixon’s plan, but turned away at the last minute, under pressure from the unions. Then Watergate hit and took Nixon down.”
      - icebraining 9y ago
        I read that, and I don't think it contradicts my view. Kennedy introduces a real reform bill; Nixon introduces a weak, "compromise" bill so the opponents of real reform (like the insurance companies) can use to oppose it while avoiding the wrath of the people who understand the status quo is terrible, by looking like they also want changes. Kennedy, defeated, judges whether accepting Nixon's bill - despite its intent - is still worth it, or whether the unions are right that it imposes too great of a cost on employees (25% of premiums). He makes a decision, then later he regrets it.
- DubiousPusher 9y ago
  You're right of course. I'm generalizing too much.
- strathmeyer 9y ago
  > That seems like an awfully high bar that presupposes the family is a single moral and ethical unit. Not when that is how they amass their power. They pretend to be squeaky clean but JFK used to rape women in the oval office.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
vba 9y ago
I have a place not too far from Cle Elum, and while I don’t recall the city that well, the windmills are built on fairly bland farm land are they not? i.e. it’s not like they built on the mountain range itself.   I visited the Wild Horse wind farm, and the turbines were on fairly nondescript terrain, if anything enhancing it. I think this is unlike, say, the Palouse area (a few hours east) or the Lake District in the UK, where farms are being erected on particularly beautiful countryside. Of course it quickly becomes very subjective. You wouldn't happen to be involved in the MSFT data center business?
- DubiousPusher 9y ago
  The Kittitas Valley Wind Farm is East of Cle Elum and has a very picturesque backdrop. The ones you may be thinking of are East of Ellensburg and while it's not mountain views there are pretty rolling hills of badlands and canyons. Of course it's in the eye of the beholder. I do work for Microsoft but I'm in an enterprise Hololens business based in Issaquah.
spodek 9y ago
The difference between American energy talk and practice runs deep. I don't see these families as more hypocritical, just more powerful. I dislike these families blocking this initiative, but talk to almost any American about how much more they pollute, contribute to global warming, deplete resources, and so on more than nearly anyone in the world (without being any happier) and you'll generally hear agreement. Ask them to consider flying less or some similar change to their lifestyle and you'll hear similar opposition.
- DubiousPusher 9y ago
  I used the term hypocritical in regard to the Kennedys because many of them have run for and won public office on a strong progressive platform. They get downright preachy. But as another user pointed out, they are a large family and assuming one speaks for all is unfair.

vinay427 9y ago

> Man, sometimes I feel like the Kennedys are America's most hypocritical family. I don't know what this means. Are you referring to actions taken by other Kennedy family members? If so, why should the actions of one's relatives fall exactly in line with one's own legacy, lest their family be deemed hypocritical? That seems like an awfully high bar that presupposes the family is a single moral and ethical unit.

melling 9y ago
How about when Ted Kennedy stopped Richard Nixon’s healthcare plan. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2012/06/22/stockman/bvg57mguQxOVpZMmB1Mg2N/amp.html https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/201...
- icebraining 9y ago
  You mean, when Nixon introduced a much weaker healthcare bill right after Kennedy had managed to broker a bipartisan bill proposing a real reform? I don't see anything hypocritical about refusing to support a bill designed to keep the current broken system running and squash actual reform. At least, that's how it looks to me as a complete outsider.
  - melling 9y ago
    well, that’s not what the article says that I posted: “Kennedy said later that walking away from that deal was one of the biggest mistakes of his life.” “Over time, Kennedy realized his own plan couldn’t succeed. Opposition from the insurance companies was too great. So Kennedy dispatched his staffers to meet secretly with Nixon’s people to broker a compromise. Kennedy came close to backing Nixon’s plan, but turned away at the last minute, under pressure from the unions. Then Watergate hit and took Nixon down.”
    - icebraining 9y ago
      I read that, and I don't think it contradicts my view. Kennedy introduces a real reform bill; Nixon introduces a weak, "compromise" bill so the opponents of real reform (like the insurance companies) can use to oppose it while avoiding the wrath of the people who understand the status quo is terrible, by looking like they also want changes. Kennedy, defeated, judges whether accepting Nixon's bill - despite its intent - is still worth it, or whether the unions are right that it imposes too great of a cost on employees (25% of premiums). He makes a decision, then later he regrets it.
DubiousPusher 9y ago
You're right of course. I'm generalizing too much.
strathmeyer 9y ago
> That seems like an awfully high bar that presupposes the family is a single moral and ethical unit. Not when that is how they amass their power. They pretend to be squeaky clean but JFK used to rape women in the oval office.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

vba 9y ago

I have a place not too far from Cle Elum, and while I don’t recall the city that well, the windmills are built on fairly bland farm land are they not? i.e. it’s not like they built on the mountain range itself.   I visited the Wild Horse wind farm, and the turbines were on fairly nondescript terrain, if anything enhancing it. I think this is unlike, say, the Palouse area (a few hours east) or the Lake District in the UK, where farms are being erected on particularly beautiful countryside. Of course it quickly becomes very subjective. You wouldn't happen to be involved in the MSFT data center business?

DubiousPusher 9y ago
The Kittitas Valley Wind Farm is East of Cle Elum and has a very picturesque backdrop. The ones you may be thinking of are East of Ellensburg and while it's not mountain views there are pretty rolling hills of badlands and canyons. Of course it's in the eye of the beholder. I do work for Microsoft but I'm in an enterprise Hololens business based in Issaquah.

spodek 9y ago

The difference between American energy talk and practice runs deep. I don't see these families as more hypocritical, just more powerful. I dislike these families blocking this initiative, but talk to almost any American about how much more they pollute, contribute to global warming, deplete resources, and so on more than nearly anyone in the world (without being any happier) and you'll generally hear agreement. Ask them to consider flying less or some similar change to their lifestyle and you'll hear similar opposition.

DubiousPusher 9y ago
I used the term hypocritical in regard to the Kennedys because many of them have run for and won public office on a strong progressive platform. They get downright preachy. But as another user pointed out, they are a large family and assuming one speaks for all is unfair.