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For me, completely outside the Python community, I really can't fathom how migrating to the next major version of the language can protract for so long... And I

For me, completely outside the Python community, I really can't fathom how migrating to the next major version of the language can protract for so long... And I have been in some painful migrations in my life... Java 1.4 to 5 in a >1M loc "enterprise" application. From an object oriented database to oracle in the same application. But it didn't last for close to 10 years. It's simply a complete nonsense to my eyes.

Cyph0n 9y ago
I think the main reason was a lack of agreement between the community and the language maintainer(s) (see: Guido the BDFL). I highly doubt something like this would have happened if the community had been involved. The language maintainers themselves have clarified that introducing breaking changes was a mistake in hindsight and that it will never happen again. Anyways, the fiasco is over and Python 3 has emerged as the victor, so there really is no use discussing the issue anymore imo.
- actuallyalys 9y ago
  >The language maintainers themselves have clarified that introducing breaking changes was a mistake in hindsight and that it will never happen again. What are you referring to? I haven't heard or read any core developers say anything close to 'introducing breaking changes was a mistake in hindsight'.
  - Cyph0n 9y ago
    I recall reading something along those lines, but I could be mistaken!
    - Macha 9y ago
      https://opensource.com/life/14/9/why-python-4-wont-be-python-3 https://opensource.com/life/14/9/why-python-4-wont-be-python...
      - actuallyalys 9y ago
        There's a big difference between 'Python 3 was a mistake' and 'we won't make Python 4 like Python 3'. This article is saying the latter (and implicitly argues against the former).
    - makk 9y ago
      100% sure I read that from one of the core devs but cannot find the reference.
PurpleRamen 9y ago
It's not 10 years, just 2-3 years. Python3 for the longest time was not useable. Only with 3.3 it became stable enough, and it took until 3.5 until it was even good enough and many libs were ported. On top of it, Python2 works so well and python3 introduces so few advantages that doing an expensive port is just not feasable for many codebases. And I guess that python is used mostly by smaller companys with constantly lacking manpower and money plays also an important role.
- collinmanderson 9y ago
  The way I see it: - 2008-2012 Python 3 as a language becoming usable - 2012-2016 Libraries gaining Python 2 compatibility (and dropping 2.4 and below) - 2016-2020 Applications porting now that most libraries are compatible.

Cyph0n 9y ago

I think the main reason was a lack of agreement between the community and the language maintainer(s) (see: Guido the BDFL). I highly doubt something like this would have happened if the community had been involved. The language maintainers themselves have clarified that introducing breaking changes was a mistake in hindsight and that it will never happen again. Anyways, the fiasco is over and Python 3 has emerged as the victor, so there really is no use discussing the issue anymore imo.

actuallyalys 9y ago
>The language maintainers themselves have clarified that introducing breaking changes was a mistake in hindsight and that it will never happen again. What are you referring to? I haven't heard or read any core developers say anything close to 'introducing breaking changes was a mistake in hindsight'.
- Cyph0n 9y ago
  I recall reading something along those lines, but I could be mistaken!
  - Macha 9y ago
    https://opensource.com/life/14/9/why-python-4-wont-be-python-3 https://opensource.com/life/14/9/why-python-4-wont-be-python...
    - actuallyalys 9y ago
      There's a big difference between 'Python 3 was a mistake' and 'we won't make Python 4 like Python 3'. This article is saying the latter (and implicitly argues against the former).
  - makk 9y ago
    100% sure I read that from one of the core devs but cannot find the reference.

PurpleRamen 9y ago

It's not 10 years, just 2-3 years. Python3 for the longest time was not useable. Only with 3.3 it became stable enough, and it took until 3.5 until it was even good enough and many libs were ported. On top of it, Python2 works so well and python3 introduces so few advantages that doing an expensive port is just not feasable for many codebases. And I guess that python is used mostly by smaller companys with constantly lacking manpower and money plays also an important role.

collinmanderson 9y ago
The way I see it: - 2008-2012 Python 3 as a language becoming usable - 2012-2016 Libraries gaining Python 2 compatibility (and dropping 2.4 and below) - 2016-2020 Applications porting now that most libraries are compatible.