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None of these changes punishes anyone. Each of these changes removes some form of favoritism. Right now, people in states with high tax rates, people with mort

None of these changes punishes anyone. Each of these changes removes some form of favoritism. Right now, people in states with high tax rates, people with mortgages, and graduate students pay lower federal tax rates than other people who don't share those favored statuses. One could more credibly argue that the current system punishes people who don't receive these tax breaks. (Graduate students are favored if you count free tuition as compensation in the same way benefits like cars or apartments given to employees by other employers count as taxable compensation.)

mnm1 9y ago
Yes, it's such a favored status to pay more than ten percent of your income to state taxes. People are literally stomping over each other to move to places where their state taxes are the highest, not wanting others to get there first and pay more taxes than they do. These people are clearly, incredibly privileged to have the honor to pay such high state taxes. What favoritism. In the meantime people in states with no taxes are furious. "Why don't we get to pay high taxes?" they cry. We are not favored. The money in their bank accounts is filling up their accounts and they're worried they might not get FDIC protections on all the vast sums of money they accumulated by not being favored by the law. "Such favoritism," they scream. Certainly, the only solution is to make those favored even more favored by raising their taxes even more. Somehow this, in the mind of the unfavored, those poor souls not allowed to pay state taxes, might magically fix things. Clearly no-one has thought anything out really. What favoritism indeed ...
- leereeves 9y ago
  If I interpret your sarcasm correctly, you're saying they're being punished by high state taxes? Place the blame for that where it belongs, on the state government. But if the people of a state choose to pay higher state taxes, that doesn't entitle them to pay lower federal taxes.
digitaltrees 9y ago
You can argue that this isn’t punishment. But I don’t think you can argue that this isn’t targeted or a clear expression of priorities. Churches aren’t being taxed here. They could have lost their tax exempt status. The Increase to the Child tax credit that would have helped low income families isn’t in the bill. There is no reduction in military spending to offset the cost. And it sure looks like the states most severely affected by removing the state tax deduction vote democratic. Especially since these states actually subsidize most of the other states through their much larger tax base and its contributions to federal tax that is redistributed to the rest of the country. Let’s remember that grad students are now being taxed for money they never receive. It’s not like money is changing hands for tuition. If they were a business and the university paid them $100k they would be able to expense the tuition.
- leereeves 9y ago
  A grad student working a different job has to pay taxes on the income used to pay tuition, as does a student who borrows the tuition and repays it while working a different job in the future.(1) This is a very specific favoritism - not even favoring all grad students, but only grad students working for universities. And ultimately, favoring the universities by lowering their grad student labor costs. 1: Excluding some limited credits and deductions of at most a few thousand dollars each. Will graduate assistants be eligible for these?
  - digitaltrees 9y ago
    What PhD program requires the payment of tuition?
    - leereeves 9y ago
      What PhD program allows students who aren't working for the university as a teaching or research assistant and doesn't charge them tuition?
      - digitaltrees 9y ago
        How is that relevant. Grad students work because they are doing research relevant to their degree and are teaching so they can learn to be professors. It’s all part of the program. The get paid for their work and they pay tax on it. The government pays their tuition in the form of a grant or the university endowments pays the tuition because the university needs to cover operational costs. Tuition has nothing to do with a grad students income. The only reason they are invoiced for it is that represents their portion of the university operating budget.
        leereeves 9y ago
        Tuition is part of the compensation graduate assistants receive for working for the university. There's no reason universities should receive special treatment here. They should pay their employees enough to live on, after taxes, like all other employers, and the fringe benefit of free tuition should be taxed like other fringe benefits.
eli_gottlieb 9y ago
>Right now, people in states with high tax rates, people with mortgages, and graduate students pay lower federal tax rates than other people who don't share those favored statuses. One could more credibly argue that the current system punishes people who don't receive these tax breaks. Bull. Nice repetition of talking-points, but bull. Double-taxing people for living in certain states is certainly a punishment, and in fact one designed to enforce Republican fiscal policies on states that vote Democratic. As to grad-student "tuition", this is like taxing food-delivery personnel on the company van. There is no grad-student "tuition" apart from grad-student labor.

mnm1 9y ago

Yes, it's such a favored status to pay more than ten percent of your income to state taxes. People are literally stomping over each other to move to places where their state taxes are the highest, not wanting others to get there first and pay more taxes than they do. These people are clearly, incredibly privileged to have the honor to pay such high state taxes. What favoritism. In the meantime people in states with no taxes are furious. "Why don't we get to pay high taxes?" they cry. We are not favored. The money in their bank accounts is filling up their accounts and they're worried they might not get FDIC protections on all the vast sums of money they accumulated by not being favored by the law. "Such favoritism," they scream. Certainly, the only solution is to make those favored even more favored by raising their taxes even more. Somehow this, in the mind of the unfavored, those poor souls not allowed to pay state taxes, might magically fix things. Clearly no-one has thought anything out really. What favoritism indeed ...

leereeves 9y ago
If I interpret your sarcasm correctly, you're saying they're being punished by high state taxes? Place the blame for that where it belongs, on the state government. But if the people of a state choose to pay higher state taxes, that doesn't entitle them to pay lower federal taxes.

digitaltrees 9y ago

You can argue that this isn’t punishment. But I don’t think you can argue that this isn’t targeted or a clear expression of priorities. Churches aren’t being taxed here. They could have lost their tax exempt status. The Increase to the Child tax credit that would have helped low income families isn’t in the bill. There is no reduction in military spending to offset the cost. And it sure looks like the states most severely affected by removing the state tax deduction vote democratic. Especially since these states actually subsidize most of the other states through their much larger tax base and its contributions to federal tax that is redistributed to the rest of the country. Let’s remember that grad students are now being taxed for money they never receive. It’s not like money is changing hands for tuition. If they were a business and the university paid them $100k they would be able to expense the tuition.

leereeves 9y ago
A grad student working a different job has to pay taxes on the income used to pay tuition, as does a student who borrows the tuition and repays it while working a different job in the future.(1) This is a very specific favoritism - not even favoring all grad students, but only grad students working for universities. And ultimately, favoring the universities by lowering their grad student labor costs. 1: Excluding some limited credits and deductions of at most a few thousand dollars each. Will graduate assistants be eligible for these?
- digitaltrees 9y ago
  What PhD program requires the payment of tuition?
  - leereeves 9y ago
    What PhD program allows students who aren't working for the university as a teaching or research assistant and doesn't charge them tuition?
    - digitaltrees 9y ago
      How is that relevant. Grad students work because they are doing research relevant to their degree and are teaching so they can learn to be professors. It’s all part of the program. The get paid for their work and they pay tax on it. The government pays their tuition in the form of a grant or the university endowments pays the tuition because the university needs to cover operational costs. Tuition has nothing to do with a grad students income. The only reason they are invoiced for it is that represents their portion of the university operating budget.
      - leereeves 9y ago
        Tuition is part of the compensation graduate assistants receive for working for the university. There's no reason universities should receive special treatment here. They should pay their employees enough to live on, after taxes, like all other employers, and the fringe benefit of free tuition should be taxed like other fringe benefits.

eli_gottlieb 9y ago

>Right now, people in states with high tax rates, people with mortgages, and graduate students pay lower federal tax rates than other people who don't share those favored statuses. One could more credibly argue that the current system punishes people who don't receive these tax breaks. Bull. Nice repetition of talking-points, but bull. Double-taxing people for living in certain states is certainly a punishment, and in fact one designed to enforce Republican fiscal policies on states that vote Democratic. As to grad-student "tuition", this is like taxing food-delivery personnel on the company van. There is no grad-student "tuition" apart from grad-student labor.