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> As you’ve probably heard, one of the ways Republicans intend to pay for their tax > giveaway, is to change the tax code so that graduate students will no

> As you’ve probably heard, one of the ways Republicans intend to pay for their tax > giveaway, is to change the tax code so that graduate students will now need to > pay taxes on “tuition”—a large sum of money (as much as $50,000/year) that > PhD students never actually see, that can easily exceed the stipends they do > see, and that’s basically just an accounting trick that serves the internal needs > of universities and granting agencies. If I'm working for a company, the company decides "it is required for you to have X. We will provide it to you as part of your compensation." That X is part of my compensation for working there. I don't see why it shouldn't be taxed. "It will cost me more money" is not an excuse to not be taxed. "The students never get the money" is invalid because colleges have deemed their "X" to be worth 50k. Let me phrase this situation a different way. Assume I start working for Bloomberg's HF trading group. They want me to live closer to my office and buy my a penthouse apartment half a block down. They pay for it (made the contract, own the building, pay the staff, etc) but it's in my name. It's my apartment. Is that part of my income? Shouldn't I be taxed for this apartment? I never actually see the money! I never actually get to spend the money! It's just something that has to happen for me to be on Bloomberg's HF trading team! I think that should be taxable. What do you think?

zzleeper 9y ago
It's not really like the apartment example. When I was in grad school the tuition number was kind of an imaginary number. It was 60k or something like that, no idea. I never signed anything with that, was never billed for that, nothing. The only way I could know what that number was somewhere on my online account, where I saw: >> Charge: +$60,000 from Graduate School Division >> Payment: -$60,000 from Graduate Department of XYZ And that was not the value of the education either. Even in quarters where you are not physically in the school, with no classes, library access, etc. you would still be "charged" that magic number. It's just a way to allocate expenses between each department and the graduate school. In most cases they will just change the accounting to something even weirder, and the government will get nothing. Some schools, with arcane rules from donors (such as that their money can only be used for education and not infrastructure) will have problems. But for the most part it's just a stupid thing to do from the govt side, that will just complicate things even more.
- gravypod 9y ago
  > And that was not the value of the education either Why not? > Even in quarters where you are not physically in the school, with no > classes, library access, etc. you would still be "charged" that magic > number. It's just a way to allocate expenses between each department > and the graduate school. This isn't just for allocating expenses. This is what a grad student is assessed to cost an institution. Did you ever contact the PI of your grant while you were away? Did you attach the universities name to your work? Did you access journals with subscriptions paid for by your institution? Did you use your student email?
  - zzleeper 9y ago
    I did a finance PhD. We don't have PIs. Email cost is trivial, etc. Put it another way: I don't care if my employer just spent a bunch of money on a better building or more comfy office chairs. I don't care if the IT department charges my unit $XYZ for expenses (call it "tuition" if you want). That's something that happens on the back end of my employer, and is not an income for me. That's the same thing for grad school. I got paid 20k to work on research, teach, grade, and help in maintaining the school's name so they can get MBA students (who ultimately pay the bills in our case). Why should I care if one unit at my school charged another unit? Heck, I paid taxes and social security on those 20k, got health insurance, had a W2, etc. For all practical purposes, PhD students are employees. Make them pay taxes on their income, and not on the incidental expenses of their employers.
eli_gottlieb 9y ago
> If I'm working for a company, the company decides "it is required for you to have X. We will provide it to you as part of your compensation." "Required" and "compensation" do not go together. Things are either one or the other. >I think that should be taxable. What do you think? I think the company should be indicted for money-laundering and for the unethical labor practice of forcing you to live in the condo they're laundering money through.

zzleeper 9y ago

It's not really like the apartment example. When I was in grad school the tuition number was kind of an imaginary number. It was 60k or something like that, no idea. I never signed anything with that, was never billed for that, nothing. The only way I could know what that number was somewhere on my online account, where I saw: >> Charge: +$60,000 from Graduate School Division >> Payment: -$60,000 from Graduate Department of XYZ And that was not the value of the education either. Even in quarters where you are not physically in the school, with no classes, library access, etc. you would still be "charged" that magic number. It's just a way to allocate expenses between each department and the graduate school. In most cases they will just change the accounting to something even weirder, and the government will get nothing. Some schools, with arcane rules from donors (such as that their money can only be used for education and not infrastructure) will have problems. But for the most part it's just a stupid thing to do from the govt side, that will just complicate things even more.

gravypod 9y ago
> And that was not the value of the education either Why not? > Even in quarters where you are not physically in the school, with no > classes, library access, etc. you would still be "charged" that magic > number. It's just a way to allocate expenses between each department > and the graduate school. This isn't just for allocating expenses. This is what a grad student is assessed to cost an institution. Did you ever contact the PI of your grant while you were away? Did you attach the universities name to your work? Did you access journals with subscriptions paid for by your institution? Did you use your student email?
- zzleeper 9y ago
  I did a finance PhD. We don't have PIs. Email cost is trivial, etc. Put it another way: I don't care if my employer just spent a bunch of money on a better building or more comfy office chairs. I don't care if the IT department charges my unit $XYZ for expenses (call it "tuition" if you want). That's something that happens on the back end of my employer, and is not an income for me. That's the same thing for grad school. I got paid 20k to work on research, teach, grade, and help in maintaining the school's name so they can get MBA students (who ultimately pay the bills in our case). Why should I care if one unit at my school charged another unit? Heck, I paid taxes and social security on those 20k, got health insurance, had a W2, etc. For all practical purposes, PhD students are employees. Make them pay taxes on their income, and not on the incidental expenses of their employers.

eli_gottlieb 9y ago

> If I'm working for a company, the company decides "it is required for you to have X. We will provide it to you as part of your compensation." "Required" and "compensation" do not go together. Things are either one or the other. >I think that should be taxable. What do you think? I think the company should be indicted for money-laundering and for the unethical labor practice of forcing you to live in the condo they're laundering money through.