4 ms·

For the sake of an argument, there is some merit to diversity preference: if a disadvantaged candidate made as much progress agains the headwind as a regular ca

by DenisM 9y ago

For the sake of an argument, there is some merit to diversity preference: if a disadvantaged candidate made as much progress agains the headwind as a regular candidate, it stands to reason they are more capable. Thoughts?

mc32 9y ago
They can favor whoever they want. The issue is they claimed one thing (scholarships based on needs) and did another, (scholarships based on merit and gender).
- DenisM 9y ago
  It's a thoughtful comment about the article and deserves to be published as the top-level comment, but do you have anything to add about the comment that you are replying to?
cortesoft 9y ago
Lots of practices are ok, as long as you tell the truth about what you are doing. The issue here is that they were saying one thing and doing another. A good question to ask, though, is why were they lying about it? What message were they trying to send by saying they did not give any merit based awards? What made them instead decide to do the opposite of what they said they were doing?
- mcguire 9y ago
  To avoid lawsuits from rejected students? I foresee a few of those in their future.
wyager 9y ago
When you offer diversity-based scholarships as opposed to need-based, you don’t actually select for the people who are disadvantaged because of their background; you select for people who are not disadvantaged and incidentally have a background that may disadvantage other people. If your goal is to help disadvantaged people, you should be giving out some combination of need- and merit- based scholarships.
- kelukelugames 9y ago
  I somewhat agree with the first part. That's why most of Harvard's black students are first or second generation African immigrants. I have Nigerian friends who joke about being Nigerian princes because, well, they kind of are. The second part assumes class is the only disadvantage. Perhaps preference for poorer student is the only type of affirmative action accepted by both major US political parties. And I agree money solves a lot of problems, but it doesn't fix every race and gender issues. The best example is all of the famout actresses bringing awareness to sexual assault.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - goialoq 9y ago
    > That's why most of Harvard's black students are first or second generation African immigrants. citation?
    - kelukelugames 9y ago
      Found this from google search. https://www.theroot.com/black-immigrants-overrepresented-in-the-ivy-league-1790869651 https://www.theroot.com/black-immigrants-overrepresented-in-... Can't remember the article I original read. I went to MIT and of the handful of black students I knew well, half were foreign.
Spooky23 9y ago
Not for business school. Nothing about business study is particularly rigorous or requires extraordinary intelligence. In truth, being dumb as a rock, but having the right social pedigree and network is totally fine. Legacy WASP types have had no problem running many institutions, and most of them are pretty average in terms of capability.
home_boi 9y ago
But they are not disadvantaged. Almost everyone who gets into Stanford and Ivy league colleges, underrepresented minorities included, come from very privileged upbringings. The only disadvantaged population (overachieving children of poor immigrants, mainly European and Asian) is discriminated against through affirmative action in the admissions process and apparently also for scholarships.
goialoq 9y ago
That's not diversity preference, that's disadvantaged preference.
solidsnack9000 9y ago
Per https://poetsandquants.com/2017/11/30/stanford-gsb-misled-students-on-financial-aid/2/ https://poetsandquants.com/2017/11/30/stanford-gsb-misled-st... the offers were: * Higher for domestic students * Higher for female students, even though female students had greater savings This doesn't seem to be a case where they are helping people facing a headwind.

by DenisM 9y ago

mc32 9y ago

They can favor whoever they want. The issue is they claimed one thing (scholarships based on needs) and did another, (scholarships based on merit and gender).

DenisM 9y ago
It's a thoughtful comment about the article and deserves to be published as the top-level comment, but do you have anything to add about the comment that you are replying to?

cortesoft 9y ago

Lots of practices are ok, as long as you tell the truth about what you are doing. The issue here is that they were saying one thing and doing another. A good question to ask, though, is why were they lying about it? What message were they trying to send by saying they did not give any merit based awards? What made them instead decide to do the opposite of what they said they were doing?

mcguire 9y ago
To avoid lawsuits from rejected students? I foresee a few of those in their future.

wyager 9y ago

When you offer diversity-based scholarships as opposed to need-based, you don’t actually select for the people who are disadvantaged because of their background; you select for people who are not disadvantaged and incidentally have a background that may disadvantage other people. If your goal is to help disadvantaged people, you should be giving out some combination of need- and merit- based scholarships.

kelukelugames 9y ago
I somewhat agree with the first part. That's why most of Harvard's black students are first or second generation African immigrants. I have Nigerian friends who joke about being Nigerian princes because, well, they kind of are. The second part assumes class is the only disadvantage. Perhaps preference for poorer student is the only type of affirmative action accepted by both major US political parties. And I agree money solves a lot of problems, but it doesn't fix every race and gender issues. The best example is all of the famout actresses bringing awareness to sexual assault.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- goialoq 9y ago
  > That's why most of Harvard's black students are first or second generation African immigrants. citation?
  - kelukelugames 9y ago
    Found this from google search. https://www.theroot.com/black-immigrants-overrepresented-in-the-ivy-league-1790869651 https://www.theroot.com/black-immigrants-overrepresented-in-... Can't remember the article I original read. I went to MIT and of the handful of black students I knew well, half were foreign.

Spooky23 9y ago

Not for business school. Nothing about business study is particularly rigorous or requires extraordinary intelligence. In truth, being dumb as a rock, but having the right social pedigree and network is totally fine. Legacy WASP types have had no problem running many institutions, and most of them are pretty average in terms of capability.

home_boi 9y ago

But they are not disadvantaged. Almost everyone who gets into Stanford and Ivy league colleges, underrepresented minorities included, come from very privileged upbringings. The only disadvantaged population (overachieving children of poor immigrants, mainly European and Asian) is discriminated against through affirmative action in the admissions process and apparently also for scholarships.

goialoq 9y ago

That's not diversity preference, that's disadvantaged preference.

solidsnack9000 9y ago

Per https://poetsandquants.com/2017/11/30/stanford-gsb-misled-students-on-financial-aid/2/ https://poetsandquants.com/2017/11/30/stanford-gsb-misled-st... the offers were: * Higher for domestic students * Higher for female students, even though female students had greater savings This doesn't seem to be a case where they are helping people facing a headwind.