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China has been able to migrate hundreds of millions of its citizens from rural farms to urban skyscrapers, and it hasn't been fundamentally expensive. Obviously

China has been able to migrate hundreds of millions of its citizens from rural farms to urban skyscrapers, and it hasn't been fundamentally expensive. Obviously costs in the US are much higher, but that's the problem that should be attacked. Replacing single family homes with two story apartments doesn't deal with the problem long term, and invites political battles that may be unwinnable.

TulliusCicero 9y ago
It absolutely deals with the problem long-term, because population isn't going to increase forever. We need more density in the US, but we don't need skyscrapers everywhere, that's ridiculous.
jacobolus 9y ago
The US doesn't have 500 million out-of-work children of peasant farmers to resettle in cities in the next 2 generations. My guess is that if we re-zoned the Bay Area and replaced 1/4 of the current single family homes with 3-to-6-story apartment buildings we could cover several decades of regional housing demand and push housing prices down by 50%.
- baybal2 9y ago
  6 storey apartment buildings are too tiny, they need to be 35+ floors tall
  - JumpCrisscross 9y ago
    I live in a 7-story 28-unit Manhattan building. It sits on a plot roughly the size of my parents’ home in Cupertino, which houses 2 (6 around Thanksgiving). I don’t think the Bay Area has a 30x housing shortage.
    - baybal2 9y ago
      You need to build with some reserve in mind
usaar333 9y ago
I don't think many middle income and lower folks are in skyscrapers. A lot of buildings in China cap out at six stories, which is cheaper (no elevators needed!) Also, earthquake protection makes SF based buildings more expensive to build, especially as they grow tall.
- monkseal 9y ago
  This is absolutely true. I have spent about a year in China and when you are in those older neighborhoods it is mostly 4-5 story walk-ups. Some of these small units are worth more than a single family home is parts of the US especially if they are next to good schools. China has a massive housing imbalance. The skyscrapers are being purchased as investments by the newly rich and are out of reach to low/middle income folks. Also, not all those skyscrapers are good quality. In our condo on the 37th floor, we had to have the bathroom flooring completely redone because there were leaks all over the place. This building was built like 5 year ago! In addition, when you walk around the construction sites of those new skyscraper projects, you see those countryside workers crowded into hastily constructed dorms, 4 or 5 people in one tiny room. You can see them sitting around eating their small portion of rice and veggies. It is definitely a sight that would make most “living wage” Americans cringe... My wife grew up in China and she loathes skyscrapers. We bought a single family home here in the USA with a nice size backyard and she has the happiest wife in the world. She often goes in our backyard just to sit and watch the squirrels. She also has a piano which she can play any time of the day. In China, neighbors complain when start playing your piano in those crowded skyscrapers.... I have an unproven hypothesis that most people on the planet would love their own single family home like we have here in the US. They aren't living in those dense urban areas because it is hip and cool. They are living there because they have no choice.
onlyrealcuzzo 9y ago
Um, isn't the average cost of a house in any major Chinese city MORE expensive than in the US? A typical two bedroom in Shanghai is $870k [1]. Homes in Chongqing China are more expensive than in Columbus Ohio [2] -- yet wages are about 1/5th ($9k/yr in Chongqing vs $46k/yr in Columbus) [3] [1] http://fortune.com/2017/07/18/china-beijing-property-housing-prices-drop/ http://fortune.com/2017/07/18/china-beijing-property-housing... [2] https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=United+States&country2=China&city1=Columbus%2C+OH&city2=Chongqing&tracking=getDispatchComparison https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?cou... [3] https://www.statista.com/statistics/278350/average-annual-salary-of-an-employee-in-china-by-region/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/278350/average-annual-sa...
heurist 9y ago
They're going to have a lot of issues with that policy long term. The US started doing that in the 50s and 60s only to find it raised crime rates and decreased economic productivity (these became what we know now as "the projects"). Not until Jane Jacobs came along did we begin reversing that trend, and we are still dealing with poor urban planning in the form of suburbs and luxury apartments.

TulliusCicero 9y ago

It absolutely deals with the problem long-term, because population isn't going to increase forever. We need more density in the US, but we don't need skyscrapers everywhere, that's ridiculous.

jacobolus 9y ago

The US doesn't have 500 million out-of-work children of peasant farmers to resettle in cities in the next 2 generations. My guess is that if we re-zoned the Bay Area and replaced 1/4 of the current single family homes with 3-to-6-story apartment buildings we could cover several decades of regional housing demand and push housing prices down by 50%.

baybal2 9y ago
6 storey apartment buildings are too tiny, they need to be 35+ floors tall
- JumpCrisscross 9y ago
  I live in a 7-story 28-unit Manhattan building. It sits on a plot roughly the size of my parents’ home in Cupertino, which houses 2 (6 around Thanksgiving). I don’t think the Bay Area has a 30x housing shortage.
  - baybal2 9y ago
    You need to build with some reserve in mind

usaar333 9y ago

I don't think many middle income and lower folks are in skyscrapers. A lot of buildings in China cap out at six stories, which is cheaper (no elevators needed!) Also, earthquake protection makes SF based buildings more expensive to build, especially as they grow tall.

monkseal 9y ago
This is absolutely true. I have spent about a year in China and when you are in those older neighborhoods it is mostly 4-5 story walk-ups. Some of these small units are worth more than a single family home is parts of the US especially if they are next to good schools. China has a massive housing imbalance. The skyscrapers are being purchased as investments by the newly rich and are out of reach to low/middle income folks. Also, not all those skyscrapers are good quality. In our condo on the 37th floor, we had to have the bathroom flooring completely redone because there were leaks all over the place. This building was built like 5 year ago! In addition, when you walk around the construction sites of those new skyscraper projects, you see those countryside workers crowded into hastily constructed dorms, 4 or 5 people in one tiny room. You can see them sitting around eating their small portion of rice and veggies. It is definitely a sight that would make most “living wage” Americans cringe... My wife grew up in China and she loathes skyscrapers. We bought a single family home here in the USA with a nice size backyard and she has the happiest wife in the world. She often goes in our backyard just to sit and watch the squirrels. She also has a piano which she can play any time of the day. In China, neighbors complain when start playing your piano in those crowded skyscrapers.... I have an unproven hypothesis that most people on the planet would love their own single family home like we have here in the US. They aren't living in those dense urban areas because it is hip and cool. They are living there because they have no choice.

onlyrealcuzzo 9y ago

Um, isn't the average cost of a house in any major Chinese city MORE expensive than in the US? A typical two bedroom in Shanghai is $870k [1]. Homes in Chongqing China are more expensive than in Columbus Ohio [2] -- yet wages are about 1/5th ($9k/yr in Chongqing vs $46k/yr in Columbus) [3] [1] http://fortune.com/2017/07/18/china-beijing-property-housing-prices-drop/ http://fortune.com/2017/07/18/china-beijing-property-housing... [2] https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=United+States&country2=China&city1=Columbus%2C+OH&city2=Chongqing&tracking=getDispatchComparison https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?cou... [3] https://www.statista.com/statistics/278350/average-annual-salary-of-an-employee-in-china-by-region/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/278350/average-annual-sa...

heurist 9y ago

They're going to have a lot of issues with that policy long term. The US started doing that in the 50s and 60s only to find it raised crime rates and decreased economic productivity (these became what we know now as "the projects"). Not until Jane Jacobs came along did we begin reversing that trend, and we are still dealing with poor urban planning in the form of suburbs and luxury apartments.