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Ask HN: What would you do with $5k/mo basic income for rest of life?
- DonCullen 9y agoStart a business. Until then, it’s debt management, making ends meet, and hopefully get enough handle on finances to be able to sufficiently save/invest for retirement. Survival vs thriving, pretty much.
- jepler 9y agoRetire.
- LinuxBender 9y agoRetire. Relax. Perhaps tinker and work to better the internet, after I have recovered from being a desk jockey for quite a few decades.
- king07828 9y agoI would consider retiring so that I could write and open source robot trading platform that utilizes the latest advances with neural networks to analyze and successfully trade in the stock market that is simple enough for any high school graduate to use so that UBI would no longer be needed
- djohnston 9y agowouldn't this fail as it became ubiquitous in the market?
- dopamean 9y agoSurely whatever strategy you discover (assuming there is even one to be discovered) would stop working as soon as lots of people started using it.
- king07828 9y agoIf it stopped working, then it would not meet the criterion of successfully trading. A successful algorithm would likely need a way to tolerate increased usage of the algorithm, much like how successful human traders do so currently.
- dopamean 9y agoThis sounds impossible. And I don't mean "really hard and will take a long time" impossible but "actually this literally cannot be done" impossible.
- king07828 9y agoIf computers can successfully play go better than humans (alphago), then eventually computers should be able to successfully trade stocks better than humans as well
- dicroce 9y agoThe way to do this is to create a platform that takes care of the boring stuff and hosts the code in exchange for the right to invest in it. Then you just invest in whoever's algorithm works best... and you certainly don't require the algorithm be open source.
- king07828 9y agoThis sounds like www.quantopian.com, which has already been done and has not removed the need/desire for UBI. The purpose is not to capitalize on the idea myself. Rather, it is to allow unwashed masses to pay their bills themselves, which is why it should be open source.
- bllguo 9y agoOn top of what others have commented, you simply can't get anywhere if the only data you have is historical prices
- king07828 9y agoThen part of the process becomes quantifying what additional data is needed and determining how to generate or otherwise gather that data
- dopamean 9y agoMove to Jamaica to be closer to my family. Write code for small businesses there who need it badly but cant afford it.
- reustle 9y agoI wouldn't be surprised if most types of UBI require you to spend most of your time in the US. Otherwise they be pouring free cash into other economies.
- blacktulip 9y agoStart going to the gym!
- andai 9y agoWhy would you need basic income for that?
- drivingmenuts 9y agoPresumably, 5K would cover income lost from time spend at the gym vs time spent working. Also gym membership and insurance (just in case). Plus, those t-shirts aren't going to rip themselves.
- stuffaandthings 9y agoStart investing $5k/mo while keeping my day job.
- Cshelton 9y agoIf assuming that everyone was also receiving $5k/mo "UBI"... Nothing different, because the cost of everything I buy will go up by a total of $5k/mo. Hence why UBI is flawed. My total purchasing power will be unchanged. Edit: Maybe I missed it but... I can't find this post anywhere on the HackerNews pages anymore. That's rather funny. It was quickly pointed out how flawed a theory UBI is by multiple commenters and then poof. Funny...
- ronilan 9y agoIt will most likely be worse as inflation will hit widely consumed products (basics) harder than least consumed ones. Quantitive easing 2.0. Anyone said housing?
- eesmith 9y agoIncluding all the cheap housing available in the small towns which have lost population because people are leaving for the big cities for jobs?
- datpuz 9y agoThis is so profoundly wrong on so many levels. Mind backing up your claim with some math? Thanks.
- Cshelton 9y agoIt's pretty basic economic theory of supply and demand. If the purchasing power of everyone goes up equally, the price of the same supply will also go up equally, and so in the end, nothing changes. The poor will still be poor, the middle class will still be middle class and the rich will still be rich.
- TheSmiddy 9y agoThe purchasing power doesn't go up equally though, the questioners proposed rate would quadruple many peoples incomes at the low end while barely being a drop in the ocean at the high end. If the value of the $5k truly drops to $0 as you are suggesting then the value of ALL money drops to 0. Regardless of how it plays out, by putting in place a guaranteed floor it will make the poor relatively richer that they are today and shrink the gap between the poor and the middle class.
- cdancette 9y agoWork part time for a NGO
- ghaff 9y agoConsider how stable it is. Save it for now. Consider whether I might move up retirement.
- partisan 9y agoI have about 7 different business ideas in my queue. I would pick the first, related to increase charitable giving, and would commit myself to that.
- throw99887 9y agoThat's my plan too (charitable open source software). But, something else besides just work? I worked so hard past 6 years I almost don't know how to find other stuff to do.
- partisan 9y agoI can relate. I've thrown myself into work and family in the past 4 years. It's been a while since I read a book or drew a picture. I was browsing around B&N today thinking I should get back to doing that.
- db48x 9y agoTry to hedge against the inevitable inflation, as suddenly there is more money chasing the same amount of goods and services.
- abakker 9y agoStart a business making tools and machinery for makers.
- briga 9y agoQuit my job. Travel the world. Although one thing that's always bothered me about the UBI idea is that if everyone else is getting this basic income, wouldn't it effectively make that 5k worthless? Perhaps someone with a greater understanding of economics could enlighten me?
- encoderer 9y agoIt is not necessarily inflationary, just redistributive
- stuffaandthings 9y agoUBI would cause hyper inflation if it came from 'new' money. As in, if the fed just started printing out 5k/mo/person. Most theoretical implementations of UBI suggest the money coming from taxes (taken from larger corporations) or from a reduction of funding in another area (military)
- imustbeevil 9y agoGetting money doesn't affect the costs to produce goods. If many companies increase their prices because people have more money, it leaves an opportunity for smaller companies to provide the same products with lower profit margins, or Zero profit margins because they too have basic income and don't need to siphon overhead from other people to survive.
- Overtonwindow 9y agoAbsolutely nothing. Live happily ever after.
- quxbar1 9y agoWrite open-source web app platforms that enforce transparent administration of schools, prisons, and local governments.
- cellularmitosis 9y agoSpend the rest of my life writing FOSS all day
- Casseres 9y agoVolunteer full time.
- drivingmenuts 9y agoWoodworking. Start small with a few tools and work my way up to a shop area. Possibly start a shared shop area with interested friends.
- SilasX 9y agoPay it all to keep up with rent increases that resulted from everyone having $5000/month. (When you call it a "basic income", that suggests everyone is getting it; "free money" would be more appropriate if you didn't mean that.)
- throw99887 9y agoThanks for clarification. It's "hard-earned money"
- jmcgough 9y agoQuit my day job, work on ideas for companies, build OSS.
- justin1364 9y agoGet involved in local politics.
- andai 9y agoI'm already quite comfortable living off less than $1,000, so I would split the rest among four of my best friends.
- reustle 9y agoBut won't they also get $5k/mo?
- tomasien 9y agoI would do exactly what I'm doing now (building for profit companies and doing non-profit work @ spreadthevote.org) except I would be much more thoughtful between for-profit projects. I would likely work on slightly bigger problems.
- inputcoffee 9y agoFor those worried about the inflation risk: it depends on how the money is generated. Theoretically, if it is created by, for instance, taxation (redistribution over people) or bonds (which is redistribution over time), you shouldn't risk too much overall inflation. It will, however, change which goods increase in price. I suspect restaurants will become more expensive and yachts will be cheaper if it happened by taxation. Having said that, inflation itself seems to be blind to the theory and does whatever it feels like. For the purposes of this exercise, let's suppose I get $5k/mo and others don't. I think it depends on when I got it. In my 20s -> Travel and grad school In my 30s -> Supplementing my meager income to enjoy myself In my 40s -> Investment
- andai 9y agoWouldn't it be better to start investing as early as possible? I'm in my early 20s and have been thinking that if I got a time machine the first thing I'd do is go back ten years and tell myself to get a job.
- linsomniac 9y agoAgreed. In my early 20s I was tempted to take my "signature loan" account of $10K and put it into investments, as a sort of enforced savings, and pay that off. In some ways, that's stupid, but 20+ years on, I wish I had done that. I mean, not as much as I wish I had held onto those bitcoins I sold for $15, but still... :-)
- icey 9y agoA scenario I'm not sure has been talked about much is the notion of some kind of "Automation tax", in which industries that adopt automation that remove significant amounts of human labor pay an additional tax to offset lost jobs in order to pay for a basic income. Ostensibly automation has the side-effect of reducing the cost of production, which should help stabilize prices against an influx of spendable currency (assuming the initial focus of basic income is needs-based versus a universal basic income).
- 9y ago
- ajross 9y agoProbably quit my job and spend time pontificating on how someone managed to provide a BMI at a level which is above the US median household income. Sorry, that number just doesn't work, even granting a government willing to do redistribution on that level, you're looking at an outflow that is something like 3x current total government tax revenue.
- thex10 9y agoLive somewhere great, have myself chauffeured everywhere, donate to some choice people.
- SirRhosis 9y agoFinish some novels, work on a side business perhaps.
- ben_w 9y agoAssuming $5k USD per month with current purchasing power to avoid the concerns about rent inflation. $5k per month is what I’m expecting in my next job, except my next job will have (hopefully German) taxes. I’d save as much as I can to buy (another) house, write more, and start a family.
- mistermithras 9y agoIf it was a viable option and not a flawed economic theory, I'd return to school and learn more languages/arts to go with all the STEM stuff I already know.
- seorphates 9y agoIs it taxed? Do we have healthcare? Will a spouse have the same benefit? Rent takes a fifth of that net, minimum, and you guys are talking about retiring, travel, lounging around and lives dedicated to charity? It's not 5k a week. Am I missing something? Given what I see here, a stinkbutt stance of a question, I'd say the greatest impact to myself would be some stress reduction, slightly relaxed job requirements and a helluva better outlook for a tired, aging body.
- deweller 9y agoSpend a little of it, save most of it. I would quickly adjust to my new standard of living and continue doing everything else the same. $60k/year is not near enough for those of us with a family.
- cannonedhamster 9y agoDepends where you live. My wife and I lived on less than $50k. I know some families that live on $40k. We live well above that now, but our standard of living is drastically higher.
- arithma 9y agoSince this is talking about basic income, please allow me to digress a little and ask a few things that have been on my mind for a while. World GDP per capita is $1,400 Only need to make all people capable of 3.5X more productive, and we'd all be able to live at that rate with some universal income + universal work. Maybe the UBI idea shouldn't be decoupled from universal work. If we truly believe humans are worth giving $5K a month, surely we can devise a way that they can be given that no for free (without inflation, or whatnot, just plain old more distributed production.) Should making people more productive (distributing the means of production) be concentrated on much more than just redistributing the already existing wealth.
- jshaqaw 9y agoPay some of my rent
- martygwilliams 9y agoI'd probably take six months and do nothing at all, except for maybe work on the house. Then I'd start picking up every online college degree that tickled my fancy. At some point I'd probably find some places to volunteer and help out the community. Also, maybe I'd have time to get around to music and art... probably not, but maybe.
- pan69 9y agoI can't remember where I read this, but I really liked the idea that UBI was compared to VC funding. I.e. most startups fail, yet investors still invest in startups because the few that succeed compensate for the ones that fail, making investment in startups still worth while. What I read was that UBI can be seen as a government investing in it's people. Not everyone will be doing brilliant and innovative things, but, the person who'd normally would get a secure job at big corp might now feel secure enough to undertake starting something or working on an idea living in the middle of nowhere and when successful, adding an enormous amount of value to the rest of society. So, to answer your question. I'd also be more than happy to live in the middle of nowhere working on ideas and open source etc.
- alphabettsy 9y agoGo back to school full-time through Grad school and keep working on side-projects.
- hysan 9y agoWork on the many educational and political tool ideas that I have kicking around in my head. Then get involved in local volunteer work in those areas (primarily teaching).