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I would care about this issue more if it wasn't just a handful of cities in the country experiencing economic growth. However, there are probably hundreds of ci

I would care about this issue more if it wasn't just a handful of cities in the country experiencing economic growth. However, there are probably hundreds of cities in the midwest declining while the remaining jobs continue to be centralized. Instead of finding ways to pack more people into those handful of cities, why not spread the economic development out a bit? That would improve quality of life for the people of an area while reducing regional inequality at the same time.

Turing_Machine 9y ago
> why not spread the economic development out a bit? An interesting idea. Maybe this could be done by lottery -- choose 10% of people who live in the trendy coastal areas at random and force them to move to, say, Detroit, or Akron, Ohio. (note: not a serious proposal)
- TheAdamAndChe 9y ago
  If it's not a serious proposal, then why did you say it? Is there some criticism of my comment implied in your comment that I'm missing?
  - Turing_Machine 9y ago
    How are you proposing to "spread the economic development out a bit"?
    - dredmorbius 9y ago
      Bad hygiene. https://mastodon.cloud/@dredmorbius/36518392 https://mastodon.cloud/@dredmorbius/36518392
  - eberkund 9y ago
    Yes, clearly. You made a suggestion but provided no reasonable explanation towards implementing it. If people one to live in one area how do you suggest spreading out the economic development without something similar to the sarcastic suggestion you're replying to?
    - TheAdamAndChe 9y ago
      I don't need a solution on hand to recognize a problem. IMO, the issue is not urban development, it's country-wide development. We definitely can't approach that problem by worrying about zoning laws. Here is an interesting article[1] on the issue that talks about regional inequality, its causes, and possible solutions. Basically, a reintroduction of anti-trust laws would do a lot to turn things around. [1] https://washingtonmonthly.com/magazine/novdec-2015/bloom-and-bust/ https://washingtonmonthly.com/magazine/novdec-2015/bloom-and...
      - Turing_Machine 9y ago
        "I don't need a solution on hand to recognize a problem." I hate to use this word, but complaining about a problem without proposing a solution is basically just whining. As far as anti-trust goes, Walmart has done more to equalize the playing field for rural and "underserved" areas than all the public policy think tanks in the history of the world.
        TheAdamAndChe 9y ago
        Walmart is exactly the kind of company that we need anti-trust legislation for. Walmart comes to rural areas, extracts massive amount of money, and doesn't replace all the workers that were displaced. The fact that they happen to sell things a bit cheaper doesn't offset the local economic damage they do.
        Turing_Machine 9y ago
        "Walmart comes to rural areas, extracts massive amount of money" They "extract massive amounts of money" by providing goods that people in the area want to buy. "and doesn't replace all the workers that were displaced." Typical rural areas didn't have any jobs to begin with. Now they do. Granted, a Walmart job isn't the greatest one in the world, but it sure beats no job at all.
        9y ago
majormajor 9y ago
I think you're underestimating the number of places in the country seeing growth and assuming a collapsing midwest is much more of a non-coastal default than it actually is. A lot of the country is experiencing growth with both growth in sprawl (fewer bodies of water locking things in) and in-city density. And those places don't have $3K+ rent.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
rb808 9y ago
Agreed and the high prices on the West Coast and NE are part of the solution not the problem.
erwtuif 9y ago
It's so wet down by the lake in the Valley, but the mountaintop is dry as hell. Why don't we just spread the lake on top of the mountain? Look up "agglomeration" - it doesn't work that way.
saosebastiao 9y ago
Sure, if you care so much about maintaining your low density lifestyle, go ahead and move there. And if you’re not willing to move there yourself, maybe you should consider why other people wouldn’t either.
closeparen 9y ago
Because we don't have central planning in this country. There is no public policy lever that makes Google and Facebook happen in Detroit and Cleveland instead of Mountain View and Palo Alto. Housing is such a clusterfuck because we've decided to centrally plan where people live (claiming they should be uniformly dispersed over the country) while leaving in place a system of economic growth that overwhelmingly tends towards centralization.
- dredmorbius 9y ago
  No reason that couldn't be the case, and there's some history of that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_List https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_List https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_School_(economics) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_School_(economics)

Turing_Machine 9y ago

> why not spread the economic development out a bit? An interesting idea. Maybe this could be done by lottery -- choose 10% of people who live in the trendy coastal areas at random and force them to move to, say, Detroit, or Akron, Ohio. (note: not a serious proposal)

TheAdamAndChe 9y ago
If it's not a serious proposal, then why did you say it? Is there some criticism of my comment implied in your comment that I'm missing?
- Turing_Machine 9y ago
  How are you proposing to "spread the economic development out a bit"?
  - dredmorbius 9y ago
    Bad hygiene. https://mastodon.cloud/@dredmorbius/36518392 https://mastodon.cloud/@dredmorbius/36518392
- eberkund 9y ago
  Yes, clearly. You made a suggestion but provided no reasonable explanation towards implementing it. If people one to live in one area how do you suggest spreading out the economic development without something similar to the sarcastic suggestion you're replying to?
  - TheAdamAndChe 9y ago
    I don't need a solution on hand to recognize a problem. IMO, the issue is not urban development, it's country-wide development. We definitely can't approach that problem by worrying about zoning laws. Here is an interesting article[1] on the issue that talks about regional inequality, its causes, and possible solutions. Basically, a reintroduction of anti-trust laws would do a lot to turn things around. [1] https://washingtonmonthly.com/magazine/novdec-2015/bloom-and-bust/ https://washingtonmonthly.com/magazine/novdec-2015/bloom-and...
    - Turing_Machine 9y ago
      "I don't need a solution on hand to recognize a problem." I hate to use this word, but complaining about a problem without proposing a solution is basically just whining. As far as anti-trust goes, Walmart has done more to equalize the playing field for rural and "underserved" areas than all the public policy think tanks in the history of the world.
      - TheAdamAndChe 9y ago
        Walmart is exactly the kind of company that we need anti-trust legislation for. Walmart comes to rural areas, extracts massive amount of money, and doesn't replace all the workers that were displaced. The fact that they happen to sell things a bit cheaper doesn't offset the local economic damage they do.
        Turing_Machine 9y ago
        "Walmart comes to rural areas, extracts massive amount of money" They "extract massive amounts of money" by providing goods that people in the area want to buy. "and doesn't replace all the workers that were displaced." Typical rural areas didn't have any jobs to begin with. Now they do. Granted, a Walmart job isn't the greatest one in the world, but it sure beats no job at all.
        9y ago

majormajor 9y ago

I think you're underestimating the number of places in the country seeing growth and assuming a collapsing midwest is much more of a non-coastal default than it actually is. A lot of the country is experiencing growth with both growth in sprawl (fewer bodies of water locking things in) and in-city density. And those places don't have $3K+ rent.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

rb808 9y ago

Agreed and the high prices on the West Coast and NE are part of the solution not the problem.

erwtuif 9y ago

It's so wet down by the lake in the Valley, but the mountaintop is dry as hell. Why don't we just spread the lake on top of the mountain? Look up "agglomeration" - it doesn't work that way.

saosebastiao 9y ago

Sure, if you care so much about maintaining your low density lifestyle, go ahead and move there. And if you’re not willing to move there yourself, maybe you should consider why other people wouldn’t either.

closeparen 9y ago

Because we don't have central planning in this country. There is no public policy lever that makes Google and Facebook happen in Detroit and Cleveland instead of Mountain View and Palo Alto. Housing is such a clusterfuck because we've decided to centrally plan where people live (claiming they should be uniformly dispersed over the country) while leaving in place a system of economic growth that overwhelmingly tends towards centralization.

dredmorbius 9y ago
No reason that couldn't be the case, and there's some history of that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_List https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_List https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_School_(economics) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_School_(economics)