5 ms·

Ok so what if, by policy, the company uses an ephemeral messaging app with a 30 day log rotation? Can a court hold them in contempt for using that product or is

Ok so what if, by policy, the company uses an ephemeral messaging app with a 30 day log rotation? Can a court hold them in contempt for using that product or is it fine because it's a policy to have log rotation?

dqv 9y ago
I don't think they'd hold them in contempt. I think the encrypted messages being deleted is about adverse inference - where it can be assumed that the destroyed evidence negatively affects Uber. Also, if anyone is interested in reading about it, I found this enjoyable article [1] about the topic. [1]: http://fordhamlawreview.org/wp-content/uploads/assets/pdfs/Vol_83/No_3/Scheindlin_Orr_December.pdf http://fordhamlawreview.org/wp-content/uploads/assets/pdfs/V...
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
paxy 9y ago
Probably not, but again depends on the circumstances. If, say, the company normally used Slack but for a single project all communication was strictly off-the-record on something like Wickr. And that project just happened to be involved in an espionage lawsuit. And someone testified that they used the secret app specifically to avoid future litigation...
mywittyname 9y ago
If the policy is against the law, then yes. Business records are legally required to be retained for a period of time (which varies depending on its content). Failure to do so is a violation of the law, and is evidence against you in the event of a lawsuit.
- reaperducer 9y ago
  Kind of an IT-specific viewpoint. I used to work in an industry where everyone from the local police all the way up tot he F.B.I. would routinely send us subpoenas. The corporate (big company - 30k employees around the world) policy was that we would delete all paper notes every seven days, and destroy anything recorded (especially videotapes) every 14 days. We were told this was specifically so we could dodge subpoenas, otherwise we'd drown in them.
  - mywittyname 9y ago
    That's fine. The company you worked for was apparently not legally required to store those documents for a certain period of time. My viewpoint is not at all IT related. I work in a heavily regulated industry and am required to do training a few times a year on data retention policies because of how much we are legally required to keep.
- neuland 9y ago
  What qualifies as a business record? Anecdotally from most company policies, it sounds like email qualifies.

dqv 9y ago

I don't think they'd hold them in contempt. I think the encrypted messages being deleted is about adverse inference - where it can be assumed that the destroyed evidence negatively affects Uber. Also, if anyone is interested in reading about it, I found this enjoyable article [1] about the topic. [1]: http://fordhamlawreview.org/wp-content/uploads/assets/pdfs/Vol_83/No_3/Scheindlin_Orr_December.pdf http://fordhamlawreview.org/wp-content/uploads/assets/pdfs/V...

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

paxy 9y ago

Probably not, but again depends on the circumstances. If, say, the company normally used Slack but for a single project all communication was strictly off-the-record on something like Wickr. And that project just happened to be involved in an espionage lawsuit. And someone testified that they used the secret app specifically to avoid future litigation...

mywittyname 9y ago

If the policy is against the law, then yes. Business records are legally required to be retained for a period of time (which varies depending on its content). Failure to do so is a violation of the law, and is evidence against you in the event of a lawsuit.

reaperducer 9y ago
Kind of an IT-specific viewpoint. I used to work in an industry where everyone from the local police all the way up tot he F.B.I. would routinely send us subpoenas. The corporate (big company - 30k employees around the world) policy was that we would delete all paper notes every seven days, and destroy anything recorded (especially videotapes) every 14 days. We were told this was specifically so we could dodge subpoenas, otherwise we'd drown in them.
- mywittyname 9y ago
  That's fine. The company you worked for was apparently not legally required to store those documents for a certain period of time. My viewpoint is not at all IT related. I work in a heavily regulated industry and am required to do training a few times a year on data retention policies because of how much we are legally required to keep.
neuland 9y ago
What qualifies as a business record? Anecdotally from most company policies, it sounds like email qualifies.