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Whoa whoa whoa, WHAT? Historian, cook, screen writer, journalist, director? On what planet can directorial skills be conveyed via a lecture video clip? Did CalA

Whoa whoa whoa, WHAT? Historian, cook, screen writer, journalist, director? On what planet can directorial skills be conveyed via a lecture video clip? Did CalArts, which graduated Tim Burton, John Lasseter, Pete Docter, Joe Ranft, and countless other masters of animation do so simply by showing them what amounted to the same stock lectures with some automated method of remote feedback? Or was it instead significantly in part a communal learning experience that involved peer criticism and one on one tutelage from professors who were in the room with them as they drew and developed their craft? I'm sorry, but believe it or not, not all professional skills can be remotely acquired without a kind of human transference of intangible, personable skills. Education in higher academia is about much more than the acquisition of particular facts--it's a culture, practice, and way of life. Critical ideas are meant to be discussed in person, ruminated on, and debated in real, highly dynamic discussions. Real life work environments, especially in software companies, are ones in which critical, GROUP brainstorming dynamics are particularly important, because oftentimes the answer doesn't lie in the answer key in the back of the book, but rather as a result of a group process of rumination, guess, check, and revision.

mcgraw 16y ago
Video Chat. It's a completely different way of thinking, no doubt about that. I love the university atmosphere.
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siglesias 16y ago
@mcgraw5 I guess I'm coming from the angle that most of my humanities courses in undergrad took place in seminar settings, and the discussions that we had were sublime, in part because we could share moments of intense intellectual discussion. I simply can't see that happening well with the same group of 11 + a professor over video chat.
andreyf 16y ago
Oops, I think we're talking past each other, or maybe I was projecting my own ideas on the article too much. I agree with you completely - actually, I can't think of any profession where video lectures alone would get you a real understanding of the material (maybe accounting?). Even when I studied abstract math, I learned a lot more in study groups and office hours than I did during lecture. My point isn't that a good set of lecture videos will be world-changing (we've had broadcast video for awhile now). My point is that that the learning all of these subjects can have a strong web component to augment the process (and "web" doesn't necessarily mean video). Maybe when I put it that way, it sounds almost obvious. A stronger statement: whatever form web-augmented learning takes in the next century will improve learning so drastically we'll barely recognize it.
- siglesias 16y ago
  Ah, perhaps we are talking past each other. I completely agree about the web being integral to the learning experience: from printing out course readings to working online exercises. I suppose where I'm coming from is speaking out against the idea that higher education is simply about learning facts and rote methods. To me it's ALSO about interaction and the group learning/creating dynamic, and that can't be parceled out through the web, and to that end I fundamentally disagree with Mr. Gates. But he's a world famous autodidact; I can see where he gets this impression.
  - andreyf 16y ago
    To me it's ALSO about interaction and the group learning/creating dynamic, and that can't be parceled out through the web Agree with the first part. Hoping you're wrong about the second. Time will tell :)
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replicatorblog 16y ago
Samuel, As an art school guy I think Arts education is going to go online even before the traditional Liberal Arts training. Primarily because art, design, film making are areas where credentials are nearly useless and the portfolio of work is paramount. In terms of formal skills sites like Vectips, Smashing Magazine, et al. Do a good job conveying how to work with tools. I do agree that the sense of fraternity that grows up in a creative environment is important, but the web is flattening that out. Look at a site like Threadless.com where there is a dedicated critique community. I think film makers coming up sharing videos via YouTube, collaborating remotely, and will replace a lot of the community that is typically found on campus. More broadly, we may be looking at the end of a historical blip. For hundreds of years, skills were transferred via apprenticeship, on the job training, etc. A number of demographic and political trends changed this from the 1950's til now, but maybe we are seeing a reversion to the mean?
- siglesias 16y ago
  Point well taken. Thanks.
ippisl 16y ago
I'm not sure the normal group discussions are better than the threaded discussions like we have in here. And creating small group face to face dynamics could be achievable using group video chat/telepresence. and : """ A recent 93-page report on online education, conducted by SRI International for the Department of Education, has a starchy academic title, but a most intriguing conclusion: “On average, students in online learning conditions performed better than those receiving face-to-face instruction.” """ http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/19/study-finds-that-online-education-beats-the-classroom/ http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/19/study-finds-that-on...

mcgraw 16y ago

Video Chat. It's a completely different way of thinking, no doubt about that. I love the university atmosphere.

deleted 16y ago
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siglesias 16y ago

@mcgraw5 I guess I'm coming from the angle that most of my humanities courses in undergrad took place in seminar settings, and the discussions that we had were sublime, in part because we could share moments of intense intellectual discussion. I simply can't see that happening well with the same group of 11 + a professor over video chat.

andreyf 16y ago

Oops, I think we're talking past each other, or maybe I was projecting my own ideas on the article too much. I agree with you completely - actually, I can't think of any profession where video lectures alone would get you a real understanding of the material (maybe accounting?). Even when I studied abstract math, I learned a lot more in study groups and office hours than I did during lecture. My point isn't that a good set of lecture videos will be world-changing (we've had broadcast video for awhile now). My point is that that the learning all of these subjects can have a strong web component to augment the process (and "web" doesn't necessarily mean video). Maybe when I put it that way, it sounds almost obvious. A stronger statement: whatever form web-augmented learning takes in the next century will improve learning so drastically we'll barely recognize it.

siglesias 16y ago
Ah, perhaps we are talking past each other. I completely agree about the web being integral to the learning experience: from printing out course readings to working online exercises. I suppose where I'm coming from is speaking out against the idea that higher education is simply about learning facts and rote methods. To me it's ALSO about interaction and the group learning/creating dynamic, and that can't be parceled out through the web, and to that end I fundamentally disagree with Mr. Gates. But he's a world famous autodidact; I can see where he gets this impression.
- andreyf 16y ago
  To me it's ALSO about interaction and the group learning/creating dynamic, and that can't be parceled out through the web Agree with the first part. Hoping you're wrong about the second. Time will tell :)
  - deleted 16y ago
    [deleted]
deleted 16y ago
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deleted 16y ago

replicatorblog 16y ago

Samuel, As an art school guy I think Arts education is going to go online even before the traditional Liberal Arts training. Primarily because art, design, film making are areas where credentials are nearly useless and the portfolio of work is paramount. In terms of formal skills sites like Vectips, Smashing Magazine, et al. Do a good job conveying how to work with tools. I do agree that the sense of fraternity that grows up in a creative environment is important, but the web is flattening that out. Look at a site like Threadless.com where there is a dedicated critique community. I think film makers coming up sharing videos via YouTube, collaborating remotely, and will replace a lot of the community that is typically found on campus. More broadly, we may be looking at the end of a historical blip. For hundreds of years, skills were transferred via apprenticeship, on the job training, etc. A number of demographic and political trends changed this from the 1950's til now, but maybe we are seeing a reversion to the mean?

siglesias 16y ago
Point well taken. Thanks.

ippisl 16y ago

I'm not sure the normal group discussions are better than the threaded discussions like we have in here. And creating small group face to face dynamics could be achievable using group video chat/telepresence. and : """ A recent 93-page report on online education, conducted by SRI International for the Department of Education, has a starchy academic title, but a most intriguing conclusion: “On average, students in online learning conditions performed better than those receiving face-to-face instruction.” """ http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/19/study-finds-that-online-education-beats-the-classroom/ http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/19/study-finds-that-on...