3 ms·

2002 was handwavy. I ultimately moved to Ruby as my primary language (I'm now 50/50 Ruby/Go). FWIW I tried Python, I just didn't like it. I've programmed a lot

by wlll 9y ago

2002 was handwavy. I ultimately moved to Ruby as my primary language (I'm now 50/50 Ruby/Go). FWIW I tried Python, I just didn't like it. I've programmed a lot of languages and most I'm fine with, I just didn't like the way Python felt.

kbenson 9y ago
I think that's why a lot of Perl coders were resistant, and why a lot eventually moved to Ruby. There's a big difference between having some gripes cleaned up and having the fundamentals of what programming feels like in the languages be almost diametrically opposed. It's also likely why there have been multiple (for the most part failed) projects over the years trying to do just what you asked for. Sometimes it bears fruit in other places, but future Perl has always been beholden to, and held back by past Perl, and Perl's extreme commitment to backwards compatibility. That's actually seeming to change a little recently, with newer version actually removing long deprecated features, which bodes well for interesting future change.
- jerf 9y ago
  I know what you're getting at, but if you find Python and Perl to be diametrically opposed languages, you may want to spread your wings a bit and try something really different. From my point of view, on the grand programming landscape, they're right next door to each other, and at the global scale that includes things like SQL, Prolog, J, Verilog, etc., barely distinguishable. (The dynamically-typed scripting languages form a fairly tight cluster overall, with Lua hanging out a bit.)
  - kbenson 9y ago
    > From my point of view, on the grand programming landscape, they're right next door to each other, and at the global scale that includes things like SQL, Prolog, J, Verilog, etc., barely distinguishable. I agree, and when hiring recently I specifically noted that I didn't think anyone familiar with Python, Ruby, Javascript or Perl would have much problem easily learning another on that list. The operative words in the sentence question, which admittedly had little qualifying explanation, were "what programming feels like". I find programming Perl is often and exercise in choosing the right Perl language options to fit your idea of what you want to accomplish as closely as possible, because the language was designed with affordances for how we think and express ourselves colloquially. This is how Perl tries to ease the act of expressing intent. I find that Python tries to ease the act of expressing intent by limiting your options to the point that you have fewer choices, but the transcription of idea to code becomes rather ingrained and automatic. Both are valid attempts at the act of easing programmer burden, but along that spectrum, I find them opposed. I can see how many Perl coders used to one approach might find the other stifling, at least initially.

by wlll 9y ago

kbenson 9y ago

I think that's why a lot of Perl coders were resistant, and why a lot eventually moved to Ruby. There's a big difference between having some gripes cleaned up and having the fundamentals of what programming feels like in the languages be almost diametrically opposed. It's also likely why there have been multiple (for the most part failed) projects over the years trying to do just what you asked for. Sometimes it bears fruit in other places, but future Perl has always been beholden to, and held back by past Perl, and Perl's extreme commitment to backwards compatibility. That's actually seeming to change a little recently, with newer version actually removing long deprecated features, which bodes well for interesting future change.

jerf 9y ago
I know what you're getting at, but if you find Python and Perl to be diametrically opposed languages, you may want to spread your wings a bit and try something really different. From my point of view, on the grand programming landscape, they're right next door to each other, and at the global scale that includes things like SQL, Prolog, J, Verilog, etc., barely distinguishable. (The dynamically-typed scripting languages form a fairly tight cluster overall, with Lua hanging out a bit.)
- kbenson 9y ago
  > From my point of view, on the grand programming landscape, they're right next door to each other, and at the global scale that includes things like SQL, Prolog, J, Verilog, etc., barely distinguishable. I agree, and when hiring recently I specifically noted that I didn't think anyone familiar with Python, Ruby, Javascript or Perl would have much problem easily learning another on that list. The operative words in the sentence question, which admittedly had little qualifying explanation, were "what programming feels like". I find programming Perl is often and exercise in choosing the right Perl language options to fit your idea of what you want to accomplish as closely as possible, because the language was designed with affordances for how we think and express ourselves colloquially. This is how Perl tries to ease the act of expressing intent. I find that Python tries to ease the act of expressing intent by limiting your options to the point that you have fewer choices, but the transcription of idea to code becomes rather ingrained and automatic. Both are valid attempts at the act of easing programmer burden, but along that spectrum, I find them opposed. I can see how many Perl coders used to one approach might find the other stifling, at least initially.